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Title: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Chechem on July 09, 2012, 05:28:59 AM http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2012/07/what_will_happen_to_college_fo.html
Quote Once vibrant and rewarding its own championships, the coaches poll is 62 years old and graying. Scars from past fights can no longer be covered with Band-Aids, the wounds still fresh from what the poll's leader calls "the Darth Vader effect" of criticism. That sound is the coaches poll exhaling. You might recognize it from the Associated Press's relief upon leaving the BCS in 2004. "We haven't happily done this," said Grant Teaff, executive director of the American Football Coaches Association. "The only reason the coaches poll is involved is because our commissioners, led by Roy Kramer, felt like they could not put this BCS together successfully unless the coaches were involved. We had to go through the difficult mental concept of changing an age-old icon in college football that was the coaches poll." Teaff doesn't know what will become of the poll, which has been run by the AFCA since 1950 and administered by USA Today since 1991. "There's a lot of ramifications that we'll take a look at," Teaff said. "One is the (BCS) championship trophy belongs to the AFCA and coaches poll. There will be discussions about it. The commissioners have worked hard to get to this point. We've got a couple years to determine what the future holds." Polls aren't going away, nor should they. They're the cotton candy of college football -- tasty and manageable as a periodical snack, sinful and indigestible as a steady diet.... Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Jamos on July 09, 2012, 05:48:03 AM Polls are so biased in many ways but they did make for some interesting arguments over the years.
Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Chechem on July 09, 2012, 05:51:49 AM Polls are so biased in many ways but they did make for some interesting arguments over the years. People complain about the polls, but they serve a purpose: create controversy. People line up to argue for their favorite teams based on those polls. I'm happy to keep them. Who cares if they are meaningful, as long s the top teams have a playoff! Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 08:03:56 AM This is part of what I was alluding to in the "Aggies all in" thread. The polls will be gone before you know it, chipping away at yet more of the college football tradition. Chech, you're right, the controversy that resulted from the polls provided much fodder for Monday morning discussions. Just look at what it created this year by sending us to the NCG. But there have been times when we were on the short end of the controversial stick, like when ND and MSU tied 10-10 in 1966 and we were still denied the NC. Or in 1977 when ND leap-frogged us for the NC by beating Texas. As bad as I hated those, I enjoyed pleading our case to people. The polls have always made things interesting. The more that college football removes doubt from the NC picture, the more interest it will take away from the game. JMO.
Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: ALTideUp on July 09, 2012, 08:26:27 AM Not so fast my friends.
Don't be surprised to see the polls continue. Why? For one, we love them. Say what you want about them, we all eagerly awaited their release, their updating. They might have been the only thing we cared about in the Monday newspaper. Second, all though the polls were full of bias and error, the biases and error were self-neutralizing because they reflected the input of people with different biases, regional, conference, school size, preference for O or D, etc. In that sort of data environment what emerges is pretty close to the truth. Compare that to the proposed system of 5-10 guys in smokey room, who know that they can change the TV revenues of the championship game by moving Oregon from 3 to 4 to avoid the possibility of an all Pac 10 NCG. The people will still love to watch the polls during the season, and at the end their existence will provide a check against the subtle manipulations that might go unnoticed without them. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 08:35:00 AM Not so fast my friends. Don't be surprised to see the polls continue. Why? For one, we love them. Say what you want about them, we all eagerly awaited their release, their updating. They might have been the only thing we cared about in the Monday newspaper. Second, all though the polls were full of bias and error, the biases and error were self-neutralizing because they reflected the input of people with different biases, regional, conference, school size, preference for O or D, etc. In that sort of data environment what emerges is pretty close to the truth. Compare that to the proposed system of 5-10 guys in smokey room, who know that they can change the TV revenues of the championship game by moving Oregon from 3 to 4 to avoid the possibility of an all Pac 10 NCG. The people will still love to watch the polls during the season, and at the end their existence will provide a check against the subtle manipulations that might go unnoticed without them. I sure hope you are correct, ATU, but it looks like things are making a move away from the polls. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Chechem on July 09, 2012, 08:41:40 AM Not so fast my friends. I sure hope you are correct, ATU, but it looks like things are making a move away from the polls.Don't be surprised to see the polls continue. Why? For one, we love them. Say what you want about them, we all eagerly awaited their release, their updating. They might have been the only thing we cared about in the Monday newspaper. Second, all though the polls were full of bias and error, the biases and error were self-neutralizing because they reflected the input of people with different biases, regional, conference, school size, preference for O or D, etc. In that sort of data environment what emerges is pretty close to the truth. Compare that to the proposed system of 5-10 guys in smokey room, who know that they can change the TV revenues of the championship game by moving Oregon from 3 to 4 to avoid the possibility of an all Pac 10 NCG. The people will still love to watch the polls during the season, and at the end their existence will provide a check against the subtle manipulations that might go unnoticed without them. The polls aren't going away; just that they won't have influence on the NCG (as with the BCS). Think of them as you did the Sports Illustrated predictions (curious and imaginative). Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: pmull on July 09, 2012, 08:54:22 AM The AP Poll still exists and it has not been used in the BCS formula for several years. I expect the Coaches Poll to stick around too. I don't think the polls are going anywhere. Too much fun for the fans and it creates too much good material for sportwriters to write about.
Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 09:01:32 AM I do understand that they will still be around, but it's sad, to me, that they will continue to lose their punch. Plus, a selection committee really scares the crap out of me. Controversy from a large amount of voters is easier to swallow than what may come from a handful of people.
Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Chechem on July 09, 2012, 09:11:24 AM I do understand that they will still be around, but it's sad, to me, that they will continue to lose their punch. Plus, a selection committee really scares the crap out of me. Controversy from a large amount of voters is easier to swallow than what may come from a handful of people. It's not hard to understand why people think the polls should be replaced by a committee. Most of the sports writers are in the NE part of the country (see below), which means most of the votes come from the NE. They keep ND and the Big 10 atop the early polls every year. If the Big East had anything close to competitive teams, they'd be at the top of the polls. The SEC had to earn a place, despite the polls. I too have reservations about a committee, but if it works out like the basketball committee, it's good enough. (http://recoveringjournalist.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83452604c69e201543393c384970c-800wi) Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 09:24:02 AM Quote It's not hard to understand why people think the polls should be replaced by a committee. Most of the sports writers are in the NE part of the country (see below), which means most of the votes come from the NE. They keep ND and the Big 10 atop the early polls every year. If the Big East had anything close to competitive teams, they'd be at the top of the polls. The SEC had to earn a place, despite the polls. I too have reservations about a committee, but if it works out like the basketball committee, it's good enough. In basketball, they are selecting 68 teams, and even then, they blow it sometimes. We're talking about selecting 4 teams in football. That would make the odds for pissing people off much greater, I would think. And with a smaller group of people determining who that will be, there will be more people crying foul. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Chechem on July 09, 2012, 09:29:47 AM Quote It's not hard to understand why people think the polls should be replaced by a committee. ... it's good enough. In basketball, they are selecting 68 teams, and even then, they blow it sometimes. We're talking about selecting 4 teams in football. That would make the odds for pissing people off much greater, I would think. And with a smaller group of people determining who that will be, there will be more people crying foul. HOWEVER, it is now evident that we'll never have another SEC-SEC matchup in the BCS. Too much jealousy. But with 4 teams, at least we can get 2 SEC teams in it, if it's warranted. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 09:37:47 AM Quote It's not hard to understand why people think the polls should be replaced by a committee. ... it's good enough. In basketball, they are selecting 68 teams, and even then, they blow it sometimes. We're talking about selecting 4 teams in football. That would make the odds for pissing people off much greater, I would think. And with a smaller group of people determining who that will be, there will be more people crying foul. HOWEVER, it is now evident that we'll never have another SEC-SEC matchup in the BCS. Too much jealousy. But with 4 teams, at least we can get 2 SEC teams in it, if it's warranted. We can only hope. It's going to depend on the amount of bias. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Hannibal Lecter, MD on July 09, 2012, 09:49:48 AM We have to have polls to fuel speculation and fan chatter. We just gotta. Otherwise I'll be stuck listening to more American Idol talk or some such drivel at the water cooler/coffee pot in the fall too. The fall is MY water cooler time, doggone it!
Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 09:56:09 AM We have to have polls to fuel speculation and fan chatter. We just gotta. Otherwise I'll be stuck listening to more American Idol talk or some such drivel at the water cooler/coffee pot in the fall too. The fall is MY water cooler time, doggone it! Sounds like you work for a female dominated company. If that's so, you've got bigger problems than the WC conversations. :lol: Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: pmull on July 09, 2012, 09:56:49 AM Quote It's not hard to understand why people think the polls should be replaced by a committee. Most of the sports writers are in the NE part of the country (see below), which means most of the votes come from the NE. They keep ND and the Big 10 atop the early polls every year. If the Big East had anything close to competitive teams, they'd be at the top of the polls. The SEC had to earn a place, despite the polls. I too have reservations about a committee, but if it works out like the basketball committee, it's good enough. In basketball, they are selecting 68 teams, and even then, they blow it sometimes. We're talking about selecting 4 teams in football. That would make the odds for pissing people off much greater, I would think. And with a smaller group of people determining who that will be, there will be more people crying foul. I would rather have a committee picking four teams than the polls/computers picking two. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Hannibal Lecter, MD on July 09, 2012, 09:59:29 AM We have to have polls to fuel speculation and fan chatter. We just gotta. Otherwise I'll be stuck listening to more American Idol talk or some such drivel at the water cooler/coffee pot in the fall too. The fall is MY water cooler time, doggone it! Sounds like you work for a female dominated company. If that's so, you've got bigger problems than the WC conversations. :lol: Actually, no...it's greater than 80% male here. Enginerds aren't always the biggest sports followers though. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: 2Stater on July 09, 2012, 10:29:02 AM We have to have polls to fuel speculation and fan chatter. We just gotta. Otherwise I'll be stuck listening to more American Idol talk or some such drivel at the water cooler/coffee pot in the fall too. The fall is MY water cooler time, doggone it! Sounds like you work for a female dominated company. If that's so, you've got bigger problems than the WC conversations. :lol: Actually, no...it's greater than 80% male here. Enginerds aren't always the biggest sports followers though. Lol! I wouldn't have picked them as "American Idle" followers, either. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: Catch Prothro on July 09, 2012, 10:55:04 AM I would rather have a committee picking four teams than the polls/computers picking two. The coaches' poll is a joke, and it was a joke to use it in the BCS formula. SEC schools last year had LSU and Bama 1 and 2, Big12 schools (except TA&M and Mizzou) had LSU 1, OKst 2 and Bama around 6. Many coaches admit being too busy coaching to fill out their polls themselves, and they only know the teams they play against. And the AP poll has terrible bias, always overrating OK, ND, USC and other schools outside of the SEC, and failing to consider strength of schedule for the little guys. These differences might not disappear with a committee, and we likely still will have teams crying foul, but 4 is still better than 2 for the SEC. Title: Re: "What happens to coaches poll when football playoffs begin?" Post by: ALTideUp on July 09, 2012, 11:16:38 AM I said this in another post, but I think it bears repeating. The committee system can make small "adjustments" that will have big consequences. Given the climate out there, those consequences could be bad for the SEC. Let's say the second to last week rankings produced by the committee are LSU, USC, UA, OU. If they all win in the last week, who could quibble with UA dropping back a spot, or USC moving up? It's only one slot either way. But if the committee has no appetite for an all SEC final, they could achieve that by making UA and LSU play in a semi-final. Keep in mind, the difference between USCw vs. LSU and Ala vs. LSU is about a zillion west coast TV viewers. But imagine the same scenario with polls/computers published in the media that show LSU way out in front of USC and OU a distant 4th behind Bama. Then the committee would not be so free to make minor adjustments with major consequences.
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