Crimson Red Sports

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162-57477382/ncaa-source-unprecedented-penalties-against-penn-state/

We will see tomorrow...

After thinking a minute, the penalties will probably leak out before 8 am Monday

Just saw that and was about to post it.  What could it be?  They've already dismissed the Prez, asst., head coach, etc.  Probation?

Dang, Carl, you're fast. Like Chech, I just saw it streamed, watching the Open.

Wow, I never thought I'd say this, but I can't wait til Monday!


 :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2: :popcorn2:

Hmmm, maybe some folks on the forum will now believe it is an NCAA issue after all.  ;)

Yep, even the god-complexed NCAA felt the pressure to act on this one.

This one could be real ugly and if it is I think it is due time for the NCAA to start running their business as a business.

just watched them take the statue down too ...

they are saying it's bowl bans ,  scholarships gone ,  what else you think ?

That's unprecedented?  ???

now they have crow bars ripping down the JP plaques off the wall


 :lol:

Tuesday it will be "Joe who?"  :lol:

people are there and saying they are taking the statue down on
hearsay without facts and what not ...

good God , will it have to be rammed in their brains for them to understand ?

We need a graveyard for fallen Head Coaches: Paterno, Fulmer, Petrino...

Maybe a place for all of those statues, plaques, and banners.  How about the Grand Ole Opry Museum?

National Bird Dog Museum?

Add the Heisman Trophies that were recalled too...

Yeah really, that sounds more like the norm if you're from Alabama. :dunno:

I think the unprecedented part is the WAY the NCAA is
proceeding with the penalties not giving Penn St. the
chance to defend .

What's more harsh than the death penalty? Are they going to bulldoze the stadium and athletic areas and plant trees? All I can figure is they will hand down several penalties with harsher than normal time frames or numbers. For example, loss of 35-40 scholarships, 3 year bowl ban, loss of TV revenue for 3 years, 10 years of probation, etc.


 :dunno: 

I agree with X; "unprecedented" doesn't mean "most harsh".  It's the Big 10.  This will mean they get punished without a long-term investigation or chance to be heard first.

Chech , I will be very surprised if the penalties Penn St. receive are
anything near what has happened right here at the U of A, and for
much less IMO ... we'll see 8am tomorrow

 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/penn-state-nittany-lions-not-facing-death-penalty-monday-ncaa-source-says

Story out: loss of schollys and bowl appearances.

Yeah, I was just reading about this.





This goes back to what I just posted about a higher number of standard penalties. Could a loss of 50 scholarships be in the the offing? Plus a 3-5 year bowl ban & loss of TV revenue and maybe more. What else could they do? I don't see Penn State fighting this, since it would make them look like they are dodging responsibility and repercussions for shielding a child rapist.

Boy, I sure hope that is true. I would love to see them forfeit games for at least 2 or 3 seasons. I don't see them going back 10-14 years to forfeit games.

 

MD, I don't see why not. It was that long ago when it happened. When the NCAA imposes the penalties of vacated wins, they go back to the time of the infraction. They certainly did with Bama. I think if they are going to impose the penalty at all, they should go back to the initial infraction. It's about time the NCAA showed some consistency in it's decisions.

I guess the forfeiture of games going back 10 years would come under the heading of unprecedented sanctions, so they could be looking at doing that in order to send a strong message to coaches more worried about their legacy than doing the right thing.

Amen to that. Guess we'll find out tomorrow.  :popcorn2:

Taking away enough wins from Paterno to put him behind Bowden would be appropriate, and it'd be something the NCAA would likely do.  I could see that.  It would also punish him instead of the current players, though they'll get theirs too.

Some of the Penn State faithful do seem to believe that the punishment itself is too harsh.  But really?  What's worse, harboring a criminal and allowing criminal conduct to continue, or a kid signing a cocktail napkin while celebrating a big win?

I still say that was a hell of a play AL made in Birmingham on the pick 6

 back on topic
I'm afraid , us and some more of the NCAA dog house favorites are
not going to be happy tomorrow when the crime and punishment comparison is made .   hope I'm dead wrong .

I get so disgusted with the folks that put a football program above the crime of rape, male or female. Rape is one of the most disgusting crimes there is, especially if it involves minors. How can anyone defend such an act as to what has happened at Penn State. It was reported to the proper oficials but still was permitted to happen within the facilities of the Penn State athletic department. But yet, there are thousands of people wanting to keep the doors open to the same facility because there are football players that might get treated wrong because they weren't part of what happened.

How many times has Bama been put on probation for the act of one individual player that all of the other players had to suffer the consequencies of that players wrong doing. Yet it may have been four or five players that did something wrong but all of the others still were punished by the NCAA. I remember those years very well and I hated every minute of it and wanted whomever that was responsible for the problems that Bama was having to be fired and I'm talking about coaches.

I love Bama athletics as much as any Bama fan but I would and could not ever tolerate anything like what happened at Penn State. I would be one of the first to ask for the program to be shut down. It is not worth the scarificing of lives to win a national championship or even be the winningest football coach ever. These young men that were raped will never get over what was done to them and Penn State should never get over it either. It was a lifetime sentence for these young boys and Penn State desrves just the same, a lifetime sentence. JMHO

#+ That's what we like about you, J.  And I'm sure it's true.

the LF and myself were watching this morning as they took the statue down .
she ask me about it , I explained to her how JP covered up what JS did .
she said ... "well then he is no better than JS is he" I agreed .

she then asked he about the statue being taken down , what I thought .
my reply ...
"if this was Coach Bryant instead of JP , I would there helping take  his statue down"
she smiled and said "that's what I figured you would say"

and that's only right , it would have to come down and the rest would
have to follow suit , wins, legacy the works ... GONE ...

I agree Jamos , there is only option A here , no B or C , one option only !

Penn State fans are no different than fans at Alabama, Oklahoma, or Ohio State. When the program gets in trouble, a large portion become delusional and try rationalizing what happened and firmly believe nothing major should happen to them and even if something does happen, the program will easily bounce back. The Penn St. case is such an overwhelmingly egregious matter, many of their fans/alumni just can't accept the reality of the situation. Little boys were raped and the football coach, AD, and even the university president covered up. It's just that simple.

I think it is not only appropriate to take away wins, it is an essential element of the punishment.  A coach who assists harboring a criminal so that he can try to reach some magic number of wins should never be remembered for the resulting wins.  He should not be allowed that kind of legacy -- the cost was much too high.

Link-- or is this a blog?

Wow! I have been posting about others that had direct involvement that have not been punished and will not even be exposed for what they are. As I posted earlier, I promise there were Sandusky jokes going around.  Many people watched in silence. Members of the media- those that had knowledge, even if secondhand should have use their position and resources to either confirm or deny. Neighbors,--I read one account where the guy said it had been going on-- kids in and out of the Sandusky home--for years. That guy better have a copy of the police report he filed (he didn't) or be prepared to hire a defense attorney. The janitors, the wrestling coach, Sandusky's favorite bartender, Mrs. Sandusky, and the people at 2nd Mile that probably were doing the same. Drag them out and  prosecute for all to see and maybe people will think twice in the future.   Working with less than a shoestring budget I bet I could find an impressive list of people that DID have responsibility,--long before I punish some kid that just graduated high school and went to PSU because he likes that famous ice cream place.

This school is the laughing stock of the entire country. Their school has not been mentioned except in the context of disgusting filth for the last 8 mos. and this will continue for years. I am sure they will have trouble scheduling just because who wants to watch a game on TV where the announcers talk about child rape the whole game. Their big hero coach has been reduced to filth and disgust as well. Anyone that tries to defend him (Rocky Bleier) will be humiliated for doing so.  No 5 star big shot wants to go where the conversation is not even football, but the criminality revolving around the program.  Parents don't want their kids even remotely involved, thinking that for a place for a young person to begin their adult life, this is no place to start. Any history or tradition at that school has now been overshadowed by the broad brush of, again, disgust and filth.

BTW, remember BAMAWV jumping up and down this time last year (and any time the PSU subject came up) because CJP and PSU were a bunch of worthless cheaters and rust belt trash. Dig up all the posts, of our posters saying what a classy, great man he was and how much everyone respected their program and student body. But let's be clear that I was ahead on the learning curve.

this is from someone on tigerdroppings..

Penn St sanctions - from CBS news leak


1) SUSPENSION OF FOOTBALL OPERATIONS FOR ONE YEAR

2) NO TELEVISION TIL 2015

3) BOWL BAN TIL 2015

4) NO FOOTBALL SCHOLARSHIPS FOR 2013

5) ALL CURRENT PLAYERS ON ROSTER ALLOWED TO TRANSFER WITH NO PENALTY

6) NCAA CLEARINGHOUSE TO EXPEDITE AND ADMINISTER ALL TRANSFERS

7) SPECIAL NCAA DISPENSATION THAT PENN ST FOOTBALL PLAYERS WHO TRANSFER, WILL NOT COUNT AGAINST SCHOLARSHIP LIMIT FOR GAINING SCHOOL

8) LOSS OF 8 SCHOLARSHIPS PER YEAR BEGINNING IN 2014 AND CONTINUING FOR 5 YEARS TO 2020.

9) BEGINNING IN 2014, OPTION TO DROP DOWN TO DIV 1AA WITH NO PENALTY, AND THE RIGHT TO RETURN TO DIV 1A AFTER 2020.

10) WINS AND RECORDS BACK TO 1998 WILL BE VACATED

11) TICKET REVENUE OFFSET PAYOUT TO BE GIVEN TO SCHEDULED OPPONENTS


Again, take it FWIW . We will all find out the tomorrow.

McQueary reported the shower rape in 2001. So, if the NCAA goes back to 2001 to forfeit wins, Paterno and Penn State would lose 88 victories. So if you subtract 88 from Paterno's total of 409 wins, he ends up with 321 wins, two less than Coach Bryant. Talk about ironic!
So, Penn State sold its soul for 88 wins and 49 losses from 2001 to 2011, a winning percentage of .642 and an average of 8 wins a year. Very average, at best, the kind of numbers Tommy Tuberville had. Paterno was 4-4 in bowls in that same time frame. I wonder if Penn State and its fans think it was all worthwhile, now?

 :think:

I read that earlier 55 , they (CBS) have been know to spring a leak before
but like you said , tomorrow is the day , standing by ...

I guess that is directed at me-- I deserve it-- but I feel the NCAA is just making another power grab:

But who thinks, "Good thing the NCAA stepped in when they did or this may have happened again!"

Laugh of the Year: If the unthinkable had occurred and it was Bama under these charges and conditions, any of us would be leading the NCAA charge to levee more penalties. Just remember that not only does this action, if taken by the NCAA, set precedent, it is a slippery slope as to where the cutoff is with the NCAA taking millions from school funds. 

Still amazed that no one cares about going after others that had knowledge of these crimes and did not intercede. Seems anyone sincerely interested in avenging this and punishing people actually responsible would go to the "ends of the earth" for justice for the children, instead of worrying about getting a competitive advantage on lowly PSU and punishing people that had no more to do with it than you or I.
`

That is what criminal courts are for. It is just THAT simple. The university and the team are being brutalized to the point of PSU now being synonomous with Chester the Molester.

Sounds like the NCAA is going after money from Penn State; maybe $60M.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/eye-on-college-football/19632027/ncaa-to-sanction-penn-state-source-says-school-may-prefer-death-penalty

The cash would be used for a children's endowment.  Hardly an appropriate punishment, IMHO.

Don't expect other Big-10 schools to come to PSU's defense.  PSU is about to become the Vandy of the Big 10: a pushover.  What a gift to give the other coaches; a certain win every year for the foreseeable future.

WV makes valid points , things that worry me as well
the NCAA unprecedented action on this is actually quite troubling if
you think about it , to much power , power grab , whatever you want
to call it , it's not what I like to see the NCAA doing ...

 :tinfoil: 

Just think what Miami is thinking.  They're likely next.

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Yzu46cQ509w/SXIvM1Qm_jI/AAAAAAAAB94/bodLoVkaW8c/s400/baby+harp+seal+clubbing.jpg)

Drum roll please.........

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8188629/ncaa-reveal-penn-state-sanctions-monday

(http://www.andyhanselman.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/clockwatching.jpg)

Very sad on so many levels

ka boom

ya'll hook a brother up , no TV here , no flash player , no sound ...

TIA

$60 million fine
bowl ban 4 years
loss of 10 schollies per year for 4 years
allow any football athlete to transfer and immediately play
all players who stay keep schollies
all wins vacated since '98
5 year probation
NCAA has the right to investigate to sanction individuals at PSU

List of PSU sanctions:

1.  Loss of 10 scholarships/year (from 25 to 15).
2.  Bowl ban 4 years (until 2016).
3.  Probation for next 5 years.
4.  PSU must pay fine of $60M to Childcare Endowment.
5.  Vacates all PSU wins 1998 - 2011 !!
6.  Future sanctions on individuals following court cases, as needed.
7.  PSU must adopt new plans established by Freeh Report. 

The cloud is visible in north Alabama

 :o

thanks guys

Penn State and Paterno lose 112 victories over that time frame. Paterno now has 297 career wins.

We can smell it it here in P'cola, also. Merry Christmas, Bobby Bowden.

I count 298 victories, 136 losses, and three ties (68.2%).  JoPa will be far back in the total-wins list of coaches now.

LOL!! Here's a satellite image from Pennsylvania.


(http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/917522/2/stock-photo-917522-nuclear-explosion.jpg)

flash flood warning issued for everything south of College Station , Pa.

 :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

I think it's a little light, actually.

Perhaps, but it is still a pretty stinging rebuke from the NCAA. I never expected the death penalty, but I also thought it would be lighter than this. Four year post season ban and the loss of all those wins was much harsher than I had expected. The scholly losses were right about what I thought. Hope PSU fans are bracing for some losses to Indiana and Purdue over the next several years.

I guess the $60 million is the "unprecedented" part.  But no appeal:    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/attention-turns-ncaa-penn-states-071452335--ncaaf.html

(http://www.ananuclear.org/Portals/0/images/nuclear-bomb.jpg)

Happy Valley at 8:10 AM...

Penn State Football All Time Record on Sunday 7-22-2012: 828-361-43 (.690 percentage)

All Time Record as of Monday 7-23-2012: 716-361-43

Penn State drops from #7 in all-time wins to #16, just ahead of Auburn.   ;)

I think about the only other thing left was the death penalty.

I think the death penalty would be less damaging than what happened today.

I think you are right. Remember all the scholly we lost and what it did to our program. PSU will feel this 10-15 years down the road. By the time this is over they will have 45-55 scholly players. But I think it would be unfair to to current players to suspend play this year. They didn't do anything wrong. They can at least look forward to playing on Saturdays.

The Big 10 just became even weaker as a conference, and the schedules of each team just became less difficult.  PSU will be a weakling for several years to come.

Could it affect power ratings and potential for BCS or Final-4 decisions?  Likely...

That's the exact point that Dan Wetzel made:

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/ncaaf--penn-state-sanctions-postseason-ban-mark-emmert-ncaa--60-million-scholarships-.html

I agree the school deserves harsh penalties, but I never agree with taking away wins. Unless they were won with illegal players.

SMU got the death penalty in 1987.  They only had one winning season over the next 20 years.  SMU previously had posted a record of 45-5-1 from 1980–1984, which was the highest win percentage (0.892) in Division 1-A over that span.  SMU did not make a bowl game after the sanctions until 2009 when it played Nevada in the Hawaii Bowl.   SMU was in the Southwest Conference, but did not receive an invitation to join what is now the Big12, so ended up in the WAC, then Conference USA, and finally the Big East next year.  The NCAA has not used this punishment since.

So I do feel that the death penalty would have a bigger impact than scholarship reductions and bowl bans on a team's ability for future success, especially since these other sanctions accompanied SMU's punishment, and also likely would be included with the death penalty. 

Still, we likely won't see PSU return to prominence in the next few decades, if ever.  While these other types of sanctions have not decimated a school's football program to the same extent as the death penalty (USC doesn't seem to have missed a beat, Miami mostly came back, and Bama is on top of the college football world right now), the Big12 is also looking into sanctions.  PSU's conference affiliation might be in jeopardy, now or in the future, and that could be the final blow.

The Paterno family statement infuriates me:

 >:( >:( >:(


http://www.wgal.com/news/susquehanna-valley/state/Statement-by-the-Paterno-Family-in-response-to-the-NCAA-Sanctions/-/9758860/15644704/-/vnc75xz/-/index.html

Yeah, it was clearly the NCAA sanctions that defame his legacy.  The fact that he knowingly covered up for a child molester had no impact on his legacy.  Why should anybody seek "input" from the guilty?  Imagine asking Sandusky for his "input" on his sentence.

yep SC , sure would like to send them this ....

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_euckciIYPKQ/S_21O0koUoI/AAAAAAAAARY/EH2fV0_EsNY/s1600/head_up_ass_final_150.jpg)

 >:( >:( >:(

I don't ever want to hear Paterno's name again. His family needs to shut up and go away. They are making him look even worse if that is possible.

Penn State president Rodney Erickson said PSU took deal to avoid 'death' penalty.


http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/63182/erickson-psu-took-deal-to-avoid-death

CJP had the opportunity to jump on the proverbial hand grenade long ago. Where would all this have led had he simply said in November or December, "I have been trying to sweep Jerry Sandusky under the rug for years. My loyalty to him ends today. We'll assist the penal system in having it's way with him, for a change."

I think this could have changed everything, good point. They would have still gotten some punishment but not to the degree of what they got today.

Here's a slightly different angle on today's events. In the past, I have written about my belief that college football is about to collapse under it's own weight. That the arms race of recruitment and facilities will result in most schools giving up aspirations to compete at D1, and ultimately the loss of national interest in elite college football. Part of this slow train wreck is the loss of coastal (esp East) TV markets where an abundance of pro footfall options will mean CFB will hardly be missed. Some of you have argued that the east was lost long ago. But even if that was 75% true last week, it's 100% true today. The fall of PSU football represents the loss of a huge chunk of the remaining eastern fan base. I believe that this PSU mess will have large and unimagined consequences for the entire landscape of college football.