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Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 05, 2011, 12:52:35 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 12:58:03 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! :lol: #+ Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 01:35:50 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens. The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs. They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay. Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages. Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals. Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy. That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it. It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories. I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally." Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states. Read up on your history. The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land. Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land. Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region. I love this nation and what it stands for. I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise. And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state. (http://www.woollyal.com/forums/images/smilies/soapbox.gif) Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: dpa1paco on April 05, 2011, 01:48:45 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens. The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs. They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay. Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages. Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals. Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy. That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it. It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories. I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally." Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states. Read up on your history. The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land. Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land. Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region. I love this nation and what it stands for. I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise. And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state. (http://www.woollyal.com/forums/images/smilies/soapbox.gif) #+ #+ #+ #+ Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on April 05, 2011, 01:53:50 PM Che I agree with a lot of what you said. I am all for the American dream. I am for anyone who wants to come here to built a better life for them and their families provided they obey the laws, follow the rules, pay taxes and learn the english language. Illegals that do not pay taxes and do not get health and auto insurance is a problem. Our schools and health care are struggling. Illegals are a big reason why.
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 02:16:28 PM Che I agree with a lot of what you said. I am all for the American dream. I am for anyone who wants to come here to built a better life for them and their families provided they obey the laws, follow the rules, pay taxes and learn the english language. Illegals that do not pay taxes and do not get health and auto insurance is a problem. Our schools and health care are struggling. Illegals are a big reason why. Illegals who also have to work for less than minimum wage just to survive while providing a positive benefit to the American economy most likely have more trouble filing their taxes, and paying for mandatory insurance policies, etc. What is the excuse for the obese, chain smoking, unwed, white mother of four who lives off of government support and fails to work or buy the same insurance policies as it cuts into her Natty Lite fund for the weekend? The problem is not immigration policies themselves. It is the inability of government agencies to enforce the rules as they exist. Far more "legal" Americans fail to pay taxes, buy insurance, follow the laws, and properly learn the English language than "illegals." If agencies were more vigilant in enforcing the existing rules and simply strengthening the rules for government assistance as it applies to ALL, the US would be in much better shape as it pertains to the drain that a broken social service systems causes. The agenda of some is to not address the issue that our systems are broken. Instead, it is easier to focus on a small microcosm of the problem and blame them for all problems as they are probably not registered voters so pointing the finger at them doesn't hurt campaigns as much as truly fixing the problems with abuse of the system that exist by "legal" Americans. The only thing that is coming from the agenda is a shift in racial tensions toward Latin-Americans both "legal" and "illegal." A very similar thing happened during our last great recession as a nation. Look up the Mexican Reparation. It constituted a 10 year period of "purging" Latino Americans from the US as they were blamed for draining the economy. About one million persons of Mexican descent (who were probably simply brown Spanish speaking people, more so than true Mexicans) were relocated to Mexico. Over half of them were LEGAL Us citizens. Looks like we have come a long way in our policies and political rhetoric since that time...(please note sarcasm as it is pretty thick). So, let us fix the problem and not create more uneccesary hate in our country. Especially amongst some families that have lived in America much longer than my family or yours. As far as the language requirement, as long as there is no official language for the US then they can speak what they want in my opinion. Personally, I think the education system should require fluency in both English and at least one "foreign" language as a HS graduation requirement. It would have positive effects across the full spectrum of the learning process. Forcing yourself to learn, speak, write, and understand a foreign language does more to activate brain activity than most artistic endeavors and it would only serve to diminish some of our egos that we have as Americans. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 02:34:24 PM The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I agree with this 100%. I have a tremendous amount of respect for the local Hispanic population. Sure, there are a few trouble makers, but the great majority of them are just poor folks trying to make a better life for their family. They remind me an awful lot of myself growing up. There is no sense of entitlement with them, they are here to work hard for what they get, and are just thankful for the opportunity. Many MANY U.S. born citizens would do well to follow their example. I apologize if my laughing at the joke offended anyone. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 02:35:10 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens. The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs. They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay. Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages. Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals. Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy. That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it. It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories. I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally." Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states. Read up on your history. The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land. Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land. Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region. I love this nation and what it stands for. I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise. And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state. (http://www.woollyal.com/forums/images/smilies/soapbox.gif) Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD. I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY. This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Chechem on April 05, 2011, 02:50:27 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens. The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs. They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay. Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages. Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals. Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy. That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it. It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories. I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally." Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states. Read up on your history. The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land. Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land. Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region. I love this nation and what it stands for. I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise. And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state. (http://www.woollyal.com/forums/images/smilies/soapbox.gif) Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD. I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY. This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth. Look, MY PEOPLE only got to this country about 15,000 years ago. Is it okay if I stay this time? Or should I move to Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 02:59:08 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country. I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens. The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs. They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay. Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages. Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals. Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy. That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it. It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories. I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally." Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states. Read up on your history. The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land. Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land. Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region. I love this nation and what it stands for. I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise. And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state. (http://www.woollyal.com/forums/images/smilies/soapbox.gif) Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD. I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY. This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth. Look, MY PEOPLE only got to this country about 15,000 years ago. Is it okay if I stay this time? Or should I move to ??? Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 03:10:34 PM This is our country.
Plenty of non-US citizens are fighting in the same military that you served and dying for "our" country while their families are working 2+ jobs at home and putting up with this crap. I know as I have served in two different theaters of war alongside some those Soldiers and have stood at the funerals of the same. No, English was not their strongest suit nor that of their parents who lost their child. But, their love for this country and desire to be a part of it far surpassed that of many "legal" Americans. Again, nothing I stated wasn't factual. Either you can open your mind to see both sides of the story or continue to buy into the "they're all out to get us" mentality. I agree that the system needs to change but the focus should be on addressing the real issues instead of creating and fostering more "they're stealing our jobs, raping our women, selling drugs to school kids, and not paying taxes" BS that is the real propaganda which only leads to hate speak from both sides. We are a country where the ends have justified the means and I am very proud of that as well (even if mistakes were made along the way...which there were). The danger is if we continue to let rhetoric keep us from progressing as a nation. As it is much easier to fuel the flames of hate to win elections and isolate/demonize small pockets of our communities than it is to create a positive change that truly addresses this issues. Our social welfare system is broken and we stink as a nation when it comes to promoting job creation and providing educational/job skill opportunity training. Let us fix that and get back to a country that is leading the world in innovation and technology, not outsourcing the R&D for it while casting the blame for our national problems on the lowest common denominator. The majority of Americans pay nothing in taxes each year. My after tax income is well above the national average and I receive 2500+ back in tax refunds each year. How is that representative of efficiency in taxation? But, you're right. Illegals are obviously our key problem with the US. Let's all round them up and send them back to Mexico...wait we already did that after the Great Depression. Give me a break with the "my country" crap. FIX THE PROBLEMS.. I am just tired of politicians and special interest groups creating NEW problems to avoid dealing with real issues. This is true for most every divisive issue in the US, not just immigration reform. I'd simply prefer to fix the problem and not foster the hate which is the underbelly of all "illegal" alien propaganda. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Chechem on April 05, 2011, 03:15:13 PM #+ for Che. :'(
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 03:27:23 PM Che:
It's obvious you have some personal axe to grind about this wonderful country and am embrassed to be an American. Also, your propaganda won't work with most of us. You need to stop trying to quote La Raza. This is MY COUNTRY and if you think that's crap, you have a huge chip on your shoulder for this country. Also, please show me where I said illegals were the biggest problem in this country. Please get your info correct if you're going to point at someting I said. If an illegal serves in our military, he can then become a citizen and more power to him. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 03:43:45 PM It sounds like a lot of you have thought about this issue quite a bit. It is a tough problem. How do we solve it?
Here are some of my random thoughts, in no particular order: 1. We have to secure the border. This has nothing to do with immigration, but national security. The fact that is so easy for people to cross the border at will is a big concern. 2. Once the border is secure, it seems like we need more legal immigration. Their is obviously a demand for more LEGAL immigration than what we have right now. I don't see why we have to arbitrarily limit the number of people who can come into the country legally to such a low number and force so many to come here illegally. The economy needs them and they want to come here. Let's do it the right way. 3. Any sort of drug activity should result in immediate deportation. Traffic tickets should be nothing more than a fine like any other citizen would pay. I guess the point here is if they do something that results in a prison sentence, send them back instead of putting them in jail here. 4. Any foreign national who serves in the military and is discharged honorably should be offered immediate citizenship for them and their immediate family. 5. What do we do with those who are here already? On the one hand, I don't want them to be rewarded for coming in illegally when there are people who have been waiting in line for years to come in the legal way. But you can't just send them home either. I can't blame a single one of them for coming here. I would do the same thing, I just happened to be blessed by being born in Alabama. It is silly to say we can't take them all, they are already here. If we opened up immigration so that we had the same number of official visas as we currently have people here illegally, and then start issuing them to people already on the waiting list, I think most of them will go back and get in line as fast as possible. If the number of spots is high enough, then we will be able to take them all back the right way, and the issue would be settled. Maybe the last 10% or 20% of them end up having to wait in line for a few years. Our government is to blame here. It is the governments responsibility to secure the border and have a sound immigration policy. If we don't, then we can't really blame the guys who came here to try and make a better life for themselves, knowing the government would look the other way. I will also tell you this: I know of one local factory that put up billboards in Mexico telling people when the got across the border to come to them and they would give them a job. Can you really blame the immigrants for coming? It is a tough problem. One thing I am absolutely convinced of is this: CRS stands a much better chance to figure out the correct solution than Washington. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 03:52:25 PM I have no axe to grind with the country. Only its narrow minded fools on both sides of the aisles.
I am not familiar with La RAZA or its propaganda, but I have taken the time to educate myself and experience life for what it is. Looking at life through a coke straw doesn't give you the perspective to make any informed opinion. You know nothing about me, but your failure to see my comments as the middle ground approach toward creating real change that they were says a lot about you. I am not embarrassed of my citizenship and genuinely take offense to that as I am willing to bet that I have done more to honor that citizenship than you...without going so far as to guarantee it, as like you of me, I don't know you or your history. But, I am disappointed with those within it that are so narrow minded as to take such a strong stance on what is nothing more than a new racial agenda as opposed to addressing the root of the problem and dealing with it directly. But, like I said, it is much easier to create strong feelings of division than to face real issues. Sorry if you fit that category, but I'd thank you to not challenge my patriotism nor sense of obligation and gratitude to our nation as I am certain you wouldn't do it to my face...at least not more than once. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 04:03:56 PM I have no axe to grind with the country. Only its narrow minded fools on both sides of the aisles. I am not familiar with La RAZA or its propaganda, but I have taken the time to educate myself and experience life for what it is. Looking at life through a coke straw doesn't give you the perspective to make any informed opinion. You know nothing about me, but your failure to see my comments as the middle ground approach toward creating real change that they were says a lot about you. I am not embarrassed of my citizenship and genuinely take offense to that as I am willing to bet that I have done more to honor that citizenship than you...without going so far as to guarantee it, as like you of me, I don't know you or your history. But, I am disappointed with those within it that are so narrow minded as to take such a strong stance on what is nothing more than a new racial agenda as opposed to addressing the root of the problem and dealing with it directly. But, like I said, it is much easier to create strong feelings of division than to face real issues. Sorry if you fit that category, but I'd thank you to not challenge my patriotism nor sense of obligation and gratitude to our nation as I am certain you wouldn't do it to my face...at least not more than once. Ah yes, the old "racial or racist encitememt" when your ilk can't win an argument. I was waiting for that and really was interested to see if you woud stoop so low. Well, you didn't disappoint. By the way, did I mention I am MARRIED to an Hispanic and we have a teenage son. What a pathetic and sorry attempt at smearing someone and trying to shut me up. Also, I'm really impressed with your statement of manhood and subtle threat about me saying something to your face. I wouldn't hesitate one second to say the same thing to your face, tough guy. This is America, not Mexico, we settle our disputes at the ballot box, in case you didn't know that. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 04:14:49 PM It sounds like a lot of you have thought about this issue quite a bit. It is a tough problem. How do we solve it? Here are some of my random thoughts, in no particular order: 1. We have to secure the border. This has nothing to do with immigration, but national security. The fact that is so easy for people to cross the border at will is a big concern. RESPONSE: Securing the border is like trying to catch air. The border with Mexico is a much smaller threat for the opening of true terrorist threats than that with Canada. Plus, a visa apllication and proper recruitment of the terrorist gains free entry into any are of the US, so what are we accomplishing other than a large expense for little gain. 2. Once the border is secure, it seems like we need more legal immigration. Their is obviously a demand for more LEGAL immigration than what we have right now. I don't see why we have to arbitrarily limit the number of people who can come into the country legally to such a low number and force so many to come here illegally. The economy needs them and they want to come here. Let's do it the right way. RESPONSE: Foster more cross-border work share initiatives that make it easier for migrant workers to come and go. This would encourage them to file for legal participation in work programs without fear of being taxed whereby they would be subject to some payroll taxes, but could still be employed at under minimum wage due to their national status which continues to help national pricing indicies. 3. Any sort of drug activity should result in immediate deportation. Traffic tickets should be nothing more than a fine like any other citizen would pay. I guess the point here is if they do something that results in a prison sentence, send them back instead of putting them in jail here. RESPONSE: I prefer to have them jailed here then deported to ensure they are punished by the same laws that convicted them. Then deport them with significant ramifications if they return to the US (minimum sentence of 10+ years). 4. Any foreign national who serves in the military and is discharged honorably should be offered immediate citizenship for them and their immediate family. RESPONSE: They have these options, but they should be fast tracked into the system and immediate family members as well. Especially those of service memebrs that die in the service of our nation 5. What do we do with those who are here already? On the one hand, I don't want them to be rewarded for coming in illegally when there are people who have been waiting in line for years to come in the legal way. But you can't just send them home either. I can't blame a single one of them for coming here. I would do the same thing, I just happened to be blessed by being born in Alabama. It is silly to say we can't take them all, they are already here. If we opened up immigration so that we had the same number of official visas as we currently have people here illegally, and then start issuing them to people already on the waiting list, I think most of them will go back and get in line as fast as possible. If the number of spots is high enough, then we will be able to take them all back the right way, and the issue would be settled. Maybe the last 10% or 20% of them end up having to wait in line for a few years. Our government is to blame here. It is the governments responsibility to secure the border and have a sound immigration policy. If we don't, then we can't really blame the guys who came here to try and make a better life for themselves, knowing the government would look the other way. I will also tell you this: I know of one local factory that put up billboards in Mexico telling people when the got across the border to come to them and they would give them a job. Can you really blame the immigrants for coming? RESPONSE: Offer them the same rights to becoming a citizen as anyone else. They will be subject to the same checks as anyone else. If they are willing to follow the procedures and not have the fear of being numbered and thrown out. They will be willing to come forward. However, if the social policies were changed to be more strict, and we , as a nation, moved back to the forefront of technology and education, our wealth generation and job creation would make the entire debate futile to begin with. Again, it goes back to addressing the real issues that have led to the "problem" It is a tough problem. One thing I am absolutely convinced of is this: CRS stands a much better chance to figure out the correct solution than Washington. The real issues at the root of the problem are the hold up as it is much easier to focus on small problems and pass blame than to dedicate time and energy to creating a self-sustaining system that would provide for all without providing hand-outsin order to encourage hard work and promote the values of an education. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 04:23:01 PM Coach:
You're 100% correct, the border must be secured first and foremost because nothing else matters in our immigration policy if we can't stop the flow of illegals into OUR COUNTRY. Has anyone seen the super-strict immigration policies of Mexico? They are way more strict than ours. Talk about hypocrisy. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 04:34:39 PM I have no axe to grind with the country. Only its narrow minded fools on both sides of the aisles. I am not familiar with La RAZA or its propaganda, but I have taken the time to educate myself and experience life for what it is. Looking at life through a coke straw doesn't give you the perspective to make any informed opinion. You know nothing about me, but your failure to see my comments as the middle ground approach toward creating real change that they were says a lot about you. I am not embarrassed of my citizenship and genuinely take offense to that as I am willing to bet that I have done more to honor that citizenship than you...without going so far as to guarantee it, as like you of me, I don't know you or your history. But, I am disappointed with those within it that are so narrow minded as to take such a strong stance on what is nothing more than a new racial agenda as opposed to addressing the root of the problem and dealing with it directly. But, like I said, it is much easier to create strong feelings of division than to face real issues. Sorry if you fit that category, but I'd thank you to not challenge my patriotism nor sense of obligation and gratitude to our nation as I am certain you wouldn't do it to my face...at least not more than once. Ah yes, the old "racial or racist encitememt" when your ilk can't win an argument. I was waiting for that and really was interested to see if you woud stoop so low. Well, you didn't disappoint. By the way, did I mention I am MARRIED to an Hispanic and we have a teenage son. What a pathetic and sorry attempt at smearing someone and trying to shut me up. Also, I'm really impressed with your statement of manhood and subtle threat about me saying something to your face. I wouldn't hesitate one second to say the same thing to your face, tough guy. This is America, not Mexico, we settle our disputes at the ballot box, in case you didn't know that. Your inability to read and interpret anything except what you desire is showing in your last response. I clearly said that it may not apply to you, but it is undeniably the root cause of the issue. It is very easy to be bold on the internet with your thoughts and lack of any legitimate argument other than "I don't like them, so they should go." You are the one taking the low road as you continually show your ignorance and lack of ability to respond with any intelligent thought. Plus, you first attempted to make it a race issue as I was talking about needed reform that could address both immigration issues, but more importantly better America as a whole which is a real discussion. I could care less who you are married to, it has no bearing on the crux of the discussion which you are making an argument as you have no real ideas to offer. So, yes, you do fit the category of what is wrong with American politics. It is divided by extremist groups on both sides that refuse to see middle ground in ANYTHING, so nothing gets done, yet we have all of these agendas that are aimed at truly fixing jack-and-squat.. There are better solutions out there than what we are being offered. And, yes, I would take issue with you challenging me in person, but in that you continue to come across like just another narrow-minded sheep that is entrenched in his own views, I'd probably let it slide on second-thought as I know where I stand and where I've been. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 04:50:11 PM I have no axe to grind with the country. Only its narrow minded fools on both sides of the aisles. I am not familiar with La RAZA or its propaganda, but I have taken the time to educate myself and experience life for what it is. Looking at life through a coke straw doesn't give you the perspective to make any informed opinion. You know nothing about me, but your failure to see my comments as the middle ground approach toward creating real change that they were says a lot about you. I am not embarrassed of my citizenship and genuinely take offense to that as I am willing to bet that I have done more to honor that citizenship than you...without going so far as to guarantee it, as like you of me, I don't know you or your history. But, I am disappointed with those within it that are so narrow minded as to take such a strong stance on what is nothing more than a new racial agenda as opposed to addressing the root of the problem and dealing with it directly. But, like I said, it is much easier to create strong feelings of division than to face real issues. Sorry if you fit that category, but I'd thank you to not challenge my patriotism nor sense of obligation and gratitude to our nation as I am certain you wouldn't do it to my face...at least not more than once. Ah yes, the old "racial or racist encitememt" when your ilk can't win an argument. I was waiting for that and really was interested to see if you woud stoop so low. Well, you didn't disappoint. By the way, did I mention I am MARRIED to an Hispanic and we have a teenage son. What a pathetic and sorry attempt at smearing someone and trying to shut me up. Also, I'm really impressed with your statement of manhood and subtle threat about me saying something to your face. I wouldn't hesitate one second to say the same thing to your face, tough guy. This is America, not Mexico, we settle our disputes at the ballot box, in case you didn't know that. Your inability to read and interpret anything except what you desire is showing in your last response. I clearly said that it may not apply to you, but it is undeniably the root cause of the issue. It is very easy to be bold on the internet with your thoughts and lack of any legitimate argument other than "I don't like them, so they should go." You are the one taking the low road as you continually show your ignorance and lack of ability to respond with any intelligent thought. Plus, you first attempted to make it a race issue as I was talking about needed reform that could address both immigration issues, but more importantly better America as a whole which is a real discussion. I could care less who you are married to, it has no bearing on the crux of the discussion which you are making an argument as you have no real ideas to offer. So, yes, you do fit the category of what is wrong with American politics. It is divided by extremist groups on both sides that refuse to see middle ground in ANYTHING, so nothing gets done, yet we have all of these agendas that are aimed at truly fixing jack-and-squat.. There are better solutions out there than what we are being offered. And, yes, I would take issue with you challenging me in person, but in that you continue to come across like just another narrow-minded sheep that is entrenched in his own views, I'd probably let it slide on second-thought as I know where I stand and where I've been. Ah yes, now we're into the high and mighty aspect of your argument. You are so predicable in your liberal ways. You can't win an argument, so you attack the messenger by inferring they are racist, backwards, ignorant, uneducated, don't know the issues, etc., etc. You get called out for using the race card and now you have to retreat and come up with a new attack. The same old pablum you liberals have been spouting for 40 years, because you won't really address an issue. Plus, you take what someone says and then lie about what the person just stated. Amazing. Yes, che, the all knowing, better-than-thou person who has to tolerate these ignorant "sheep." Man, you are really full of yourself. I feel sorry for you. It's a shame you have to address someone as ignorant and lowly as me. I guess if the other posters disagree with you they will be just as ignorant, right? Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 04:58:33 PM Now we are getting somewhere.
Response to Che: 1. Sorry, I didn't just mean the Southern border. I meant ALL of the borders, as well as the ports. If we can put a man on the moon we can secure ALL of the borders. Just my opinion. 2. I like the idea of having a way for them to come and go easier. I don't like the idea of paying them less than minimum wage. 3. I'm not opposed to that. That seems just. But I would also be OK with sending them back and saving the money it would cost to keep them in prison. 4. I agree. 5. I don't know what the actual number is for illegals, but I've heard 12 million so let's just use that as the number. So why don't we create 12 million new immigration visas, and start awarding them. First they go to the folks who have been in line all these years to come here legally, but this will happen naturally since they are already at the front of the line. The 12 million or so who are here illegally would have to get in the same line, but presumably there aren't 12 million people already in line so the ones who get in line first will be able to come back in almost immediately and be totally legal. When I say come back in I don't mean literally. They don't have to actually leave to get in line. The last ones to get in line would end up having to wait a little while until some new spots opened up. This would give them an incentive to get in line and do it right ASAP. In the meantime, don't round them up or deport them or anything like that. Maybe you give them some sort of lessor status if they come forward, but not as good as what the official 12 million will get so that they still have an incentive to get in line. Maybe they can stick around under this lessor status until their turn comes up. Just some thoughts. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 05:06:33 PM HA...liberal agenda. That is a first for me. Pardon me if I share that with some of my colleagues and family. They'll love it.
Where does a call for stricter regulations on social services, a call for educational reform, job creation, and a functional migrant worker policy fir into the liberal agenda (that eats at the heart of the Unions and lower income families who compose that basis of the liberal platforms). Do you listen to yourself? Have you read a word of what I have written? You opened with an attack (not an intelligible response) then continued to do so challenging my own sense of patriotism for daring to have an idea that was spat out to me by one agenda based party or the other. Am I the only one seeing this? If calling for the discussion to transcend the trivial issues and truly fix some of what is wrong with the US makes me less American, than so be it. You are a piece of work man. YES, your every response makes you sound more and more like one of those sheep. And, yes, I'm sorry that I chose to engage in any attempt at a rational conversation with someone who has no desire to offer any attempt at rational conversation in return. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 05:07:32 PM How about some ofthese ideas Supercoach:
1. Illegals could not recieve ANY federal benefits such as social security, food stamps, welfare, student loans, medcare, medicaid, etc., if they enter our country illegally. 2. Illegals do not stabiize wages, they suppress them and cost Americans jobs. I know for a fact there are landscape & construction businesses paying illegals LESS than the minimum wage, so naturally they won't hire, say a carpenter, and pay him &16 n hour when they can hire an illegal for maybe $7 to $8 an hour. I say we need to heavily penalize companies that take advantage of illegals like this. 3. I have to get back to my ignorant, uninformed, & racist work and will get back with more, later. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 05:11:09 PM HA...liberal agenda. That is a first for me. Pardon me if I share that with some of my colleagues and family. They'll love it. Where does a call for stricter regulations on social services, a call for educational reform, job creation, and a functional migrant worker policy fir into the liberal agenda (that eats at the heart of the Unions and lower income families who compose that basis of the liberal platforms). Do you listen to yourself? Have you read a word of what I have written? You opened with an attack (not an intelligible response) then continued to do so challenging my own sense of patriotism for daring to have an idea that was spat out to me by one agenda based party or the other. Am I the only one seeing this? If calling for the discussion to transcend the trivial issues and truly fix some of what is wrong with the US makes me less American, than so be it. You are a piece of work man. YES, your every response makes you sound more and more like one of those sheep. And, yes, I'm sorry that I chose to engage in any attempt at a rational conversation with someone who has no desire to offer any attempt at rational conversation in return. Let me see, you play the race card, call me ignorant and a sheep, hint at physical action towards me for exressing my opinion, but I'm attacking you. WOW! Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 05:19:35 PM Now we are getting somewhere. Response to Che: 1. Sorry, I didn't just mean the Southern border. I meant ALL of the borders, as well as the ports. If we can put a man on the moon we can secure ALL of the borders. Just my opinion. 2. I like the idea of having a way for them to come and go easier. I don't like the idea of paying them less than minimum wage. 3. I'm not opposed to that. That seems just. But I would also be OK with sending them back and saving the money it would cost to keep them in prison. 4. I agree. 5. I don't know what the actual number is for illegals, but I've heard 12 million so let's just use that as the number. So why don't we create 12 million new immigration visas, and start awarding them. First they go to the folks who have been in line all these years to come here legally, but this will happen naturally since they are already at the front of the line. The 12 million or so who are here illegally would have to get in the same line, but presumably there aren't 12 million people already in line so the ones who get in line first will be able to come back in almost immediately and be totally legal. When I say come back in I don't mean literally. They don't have to actually leave to get in line. The last ones to get in line would end up having to wait a little while until some new spots opened up. This would give them an incentive to get in line and do it right ASAP. In the meantime, don't round them up or deport them or anything like that. Maybe you give them some sort of lessor status if they come forward, but not as good as what the official 12 million will get so that they still have an incentive to get in line. Maybe they can stick around under this lessor status until their turn comes up. Just some thoughts. At risk of disappointing the good Marshall and letting my conservatism show, minimum wage is a liberal agenda designed to garner votes from the lower class when in actuality it leads to more unemployment for that same base as business can afford to hire fewer and fewer teenagers for the job (and others who are in true need of money to work for minimum wage). So, allowing employers to take advantage of migrant workers for wages less than what average Americans would do the job, it provides a cost savings. Not that it would win many votes, but reducing or simply doing away with minimum wage would have a much larger positive effect as companies could determine the true market rate of wages. As input costs were lowered, final purchase prices would be lower as well. Yes, employers that typically employ at minimum wage may opt for cost savings of immigrants working as legal migrant workers, but if the greater good is served by the tax generation of "illegals" working legally and ultimately bring goods to the market at a lower price for consumption, it benefits all and helps remove some of the artificiality in the pricing market (reducing inflation and cost of staple good products and services). I like the gist of your other ideas, but the point remains that real issues continue to take a backseat to distractors like immigration issues. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 05:26:41 PM In hindsight, I guess the point is that Auburn sux and their board of trustees is finally getting a much needed face lift.
Sorry, Bamawv. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 05:27:23 PM posted by che boludo:
At risk of disappointing the good Marshall and letting my conservatism show, minimum wage is a liberal agenda designed to garner votes from the lower class when in actuality it leads to more unemployment for that same base as business can afford to hire fewer and fewer teenagers for the job (and others who are in true need of money to work for minimum wage). So, allowing employers to take advantage of migrant workers for wages less than what average Americans would do the job, it provides a cost savings. Not that it would win many votes, but reducing or simply doing away with minimum wage would have a much larger positive effect as companies could determine the true market rate of wages. As input costs were lowered, final purchase prices would be lower as well. Yes, employers that typically employ at minimum wage may opt for cost savings of illegal immigrants, but if the greater good is served by the tax generation of "illegals" working legally and ultimately bring goods to the market at a lower price for consumption, it benefits all and helps remove some of the artificiality in the pricing market (reducing inflation and cost of staple good products and services).I like the gist of your other ideas, but the point remains that real issues continue to take a backseat to distractors like immigration issues. I agree with this. There may be hope for you after all. And what about limiting the federal benefits to illegals, where do you stand on that? I completely agree about the minimum wage, but we can't allow illegals to take jobs from Americans in construction. Unions are not the answer, but neither is using illegals to take jobs. I am not or have ever been a construction worker, so I am not saying this for my own benefit. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 05:29:42 PM Minimum wage is like the unions. Time and a place, but it's gone now.
However, I would like to point out that in 1993 when I was 16 I made 3.35 an hour. What is it now? 7.50? The arguement that someone should be able to live on it is socialist. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 05:32:57 PM Minimum wage is like the unions. Time and a place, but it's gone now. However, I would like to point out that in 1993 when I was 16 I made 3.35 an hour. What is it now? 7.50? The arguement that someone should be able to live on it is socialist. Yeah, every economist knows the minimum wage is useless, but it's a handy political tool for the Democrats. I still think there is a place for unions, but they have way too much power and input in the political system. Just look at AEA in Alabama as an example. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 05:36:41 PM Response to Marshal:
1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 05:40:38 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 05, 2011, 05:41:43 PM Well all I know is after my great Honor to serve my country and I worked construction 33 yrs. and I am on a fixed income that would starve anybody but my wife skimps and we make it. I don't fuss cause I am not allowed to but I can say one thing You voted for change last time and you got it. I think I've had all the change I can handle before I starve to death. I still think Aburn should have a lot more diversity of people on that board to fix their problem. JMHO. RTR!
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 05:47:00 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 05:48:24 PM posted by che boludo: At risk of disappointing the good Marshall and letting my conservatism show, minimum wage is a liberal agenda designed to garner votes from the lower class when in actuality it leads to more unemployment for that same base as business can afford to hire fewer and fewer teenagers for the job (and others who are in true need of money to work for minimum wage). So, allowing employers to take advantage of migrant workers for wages less than what average Americans would do the job, it provides a cost savings. Not that it would win many votes, but reducing or simply doing away with minimum wage would have a much larger positive effect as companies could determine the true market rate of wages. As input costs were lowered, final purchase prices would be lower as well. Yes, employers that typically employ at minimum wage may opt for cost savings of illegal immigrants, but if the greater good is served by the tax generation of "illegals" working legally and ultimately bring goods to the market at a lower price for consumption, it benefits all and helps remove some of the artificiality in the pricing market (reducing inflation and cost of staple good products and services).I like the gist of your other ideas, but the point remains that real issues continue to take a backseat to distractors like immigration issues. I agree with this. There may be hope for you after all. And what about limiting the federal benefits to illegals, where do you stand on that? I completely agree about the minimum wage, but we can't allow illegals to take jobs from Americans in construction. Unions are not the answer, but neither is using illegals to take jobs. I am not or have ever been a construction worker, so I am not saying this for my own benefit. "I agree with this. There may be hope for you after all. And what about limiting the federal benefits to illegals, where do you stand on that?" Seriously, are you joking? Are you just trying to tell me that you haven't read anything. I am for complete social service reform that makes it more strict for all and eliminates those who are not entitled to it. That alone, would solve much of the real issue. If hand outs are more difficult to come by...less people will come by. Not sure what your selection of construction workers is. But, if basic laborers are replaced by legal migrant workers (which I am for instituting), so be it. That is why I included that the US should focus its budget on job creation and education (which includes higher education and developing skills for basic laborers displaced by migrant workers which create better job paying opportunities than they had initially). So, with the institution of migrant worker policies, we would definitely have to address those problems of under-employment. Additional job skills training and more affordable education goes a long way toward that doing that. The most liberal thing I will say is that if any artificial reform should be instituted it should be at the cost of a state funded education. There is no need to deny the majority of Americans the opportunity to educate themselves and earn a specialized degree without forcing them into extreme amounts of debt. It is a natural means to instill class separation in the US between the haves and have nots. If efforts were put in place to eliminate that barrier, we would see the best and brightest minds truly rise the top with a true appreciation for what it took to get there. The more educated our population is the better off we all are. The real power in the world is not the generation of primary good markets, it lies in services and technologies. The nation that dominates that sector provides a benefit to itself and will continue to lead the world. The path to achieving that is through education. So, yes, wholesale education is reform is necessary to focus on math, sciences, and physical education (much like the post-WW2 agenda which enabled us to win the cold war and place that man on the moon that Coach mentioned) Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 05:50:26 PM I pretty much agree with everything you guys said about minimum wage. It is horrible and should go. I guess the point I was trying to get at is that businesses shouldn't be able to take advantage of the immigrants and bypass the minimum wage laws. If we have a minimum wage (which we do), then they should be forced to pay it to the immigrant workers too. This levels the playing field and allows citizens to compete for those jobs if they want to. I know people right now that would be happy to work for less than minimum wage if they could just get a job. But that is not an option for them. I agree that it would be best to get rid of minimum wage altogether and let the market set the wage.
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 05:50:31 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. Sounds like it. Well, Smith bushhogging has a strict policy against hiring illegal aliens. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 05:55:37 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. To me it is like prohibition, do away with it and the extreme cost advantage goes away as the migrant workers would have more rights and be less willing to simply take their pennies on the dollar pay because they have no voice. There would still be a cost advantage, but the end result would be better for all. legalize migrant workers and the US economy gains from their work efforts while instituing policies to reform social services across the board protect all US interests. We benefit from them without the burden of having to support them when they are no longer in the workforce. (don't mean to sound blunt, but I used burden in the sense to mean "pay for" not toimply that our senior citizens are a burden to us. Thye are the one group I am for providing more support, assuming that those represent persons who worked hard all of their lives). Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 05:56:28 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. Sounds like it. Well, Smith bushhogging has a strict policy against hiring illegal aliens. :lol: #+ Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 05:59:06 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. To me it is like prohibition, do away with it and the extreme cost advantage goes away as the migrant workers would have more rights and be less willing to simply take their pennies on the dollar pay because they have no voice. There would still be a cost advantage, but the end result would be better for all. legalize migrant workers and the US economy gains from their work efforts while instituing policies to reform social services across the board protect all US interests. We benefit from them without the burden of having to support them when they are no longer in the workforce. (don't mean to sound blunt, but I used burden in the sense to mean "pay for" not toimply that our senior citizens are a burden to us. Thye are the one group I am for providing more support, assuming that those represent persons who worked hard all of their lives). Wouldnt eliminating minimum wage entirely also solve the issue? Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 06:11:46 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. To me it is like prohibition, do away with it and the extreme cost advantage goes away as the migrant workers would have more rights and be less willing to simply take their pennies on the dollar pay because they have no voice. There would still be a cost advantage, but the end result would be better for all. legalize migrant workers and the US economy gains from their work efforts while instituing policies to reform social services across the board protect all US interests. We benefit from them without the burden of having to support them when they are no longer in the workforce. (don't mean to sound blunt, but I used burden in the sense to mean "pay for" not toimply that our senior citizens are a burden to us. Thye are the one group I am for providing more support, assuming that those represent persons who worked hard all of their lives). Wouldnt eliminating minimum wage entirely also solve the issue? It would help lots of issues. But, strict social and educational reform are key as well, plus a workable migrant worker policy. But, like you said and I agreed with earlier, the abolition of a minimum wage does more to combat the problems associated with illegal immigration than anything else....without the need for a big fence. ;) So, it goes back to being a policy issue. We have the tools to fix the problem, but no ability to get it done in Congress as partisanship generally wins the day. Social and educational reform coupled with a workable migrant worker policy would also solve lots of issues. Doing away with minimum wage would be a big step forward, but if no legal migrant worker policy exists, illegals will always be willing to undercut the fair market wage. If becoming a migrant worker (legally) offers you more rights and access while choosing to be illegal gives you no access and will result in imprisonment, there is more incentive to be a migrant worker. Like I said, costs of living here legally (even as a migrant worker) would prevent the extreme wage differences as migrant workers had more of a voice (and less fear) to try for higher wages. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 05, 2011, 06:14:48 PM I'll get back with you guys later. This is an excellent discussion. My Latino wife has just come home to her racist, uneducated, ignorant husband and we are going to eat.
:o Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 06:15:23 PM Response to Marshal: 1. That seems reasonable to me. I don't think most of them would care, they didn't come here to get food stamps. 2. I agree. I don't think they should ever be paid less than minimum wage. I also think you have to go after the companies that hire them. I know some local businesses that do that too and the owner of the company is just making a huge amount of money and not paying his employees hardly anything. He still has the same revenue, but his payroll is about half what it was. This nonsense has to stop. This is another reason why the 12 million who are here illegally have to be brought into the system officially in some sort of capacity. It makes it harder to hide such shenanigans if those 12 million have social security numbers and are paying taxes. Of course if we have 12 million now when they are being treated like dogs, how many would we have if they were being treated like regular plain old poor American citizens? 3. No comment. :D 2. Wait a second, I thought minimum wage was useless? If that is the case, why is it the standard for pay for the illegals? The no minimum wage argument says let the market determine the wage. Yeah, it's a tough issue, but the illegals are getting less than minimum wage and the owner walks away with a huge profit. Since most Amerians won't wok for less than minimum wage, the owner doesn't have to pay higher wages because he can use illegals. That corupts the normal give and take on wages, since you can find illegals to do the work. To me it is like prohibition, do away with it and the extreme cost advantage goes away as the migrant workers would have more rights and be less willing to simply take their pennies on the dollar pay because they have no voice. There would still be a cost advantage, but the end result would be better for all. legalize migrant workers and the US economy gains from their work efforts while instituing policies to reform social services across the board protect all US interests. We benefit from them without the burden of having to support them when they are no longer in the workforce. (don't mean to sound blunt, but I used burden in the sense to mean "pay for" not toimply that our senior citizens are a burden to us. Thye are the one group I am for providing more support, assuming that those represent persons who worked hard all of their lives). Wouldnt eliminating minimum wage entirely also solve the issue? It would help lots of issues. But, strict social and educational reform are key as well, plus a workable migrant worker policy. But, like you said and I agreed with earlier, the abolition of a minimum wage does more to combat the problems associated with illegal immigration than anything else....without the need for a big fence. ;) So, it goes back to being a policy issue. We have the tools to fix the problem, but no ability to get it done in Congress as partisanship generally wins the day. Social and educational reform coupled with a workable migrant worker policy would also solve lots of issues. Doing away with minimum wage would be a big step forward, but if no legal migrant worker policy exists, illegals will always be willing to undercut the fair market wage. If becoming a migrant worker (legally) offers you more rights and access while choosing to be illegal gives you no access and will result in imprisonment, there is more incentive to be a migrant worker. Like I said, costs of living here legally (even as a migrant worker) would prevent the extreme wage differences and make it more appealing for migrant workers to fight for higher wages. Makes sense to me. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 06:19:35 PM My own desire for border security has nothing to do with immigration. And it doesn't need to be a fence. What ever is necessary and most effective at keeping Mahmoud from sneaking in a dirty bomb. The fact that essentially a peasant can penetrate our border at will undetected is a huge concern.
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 06:20:59 PM I'll get back with you guys later. This is an excellent discussion. My Latino wife has just come home to her racist, uneducated, ignorant husband and we are going to eat. :o I don't know how true those are or not, but she could help you with comprehension. ;) Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 06:21:52 PM My own desire for border security has nothing to do with immigration. And it doesn't need to be a fence. What ever is necessary and most effective at keeping Mahmoud from sneaking in a dirty bomb. The fact that essentially a peasant can penetrate our border at will undetected is a huge concern. There was a republican from Pennsylvania who crossed the river into America twice on an elephant with a mariachi band accompanying him without being detected*. * Disclaimer: from memory, details are sketchy Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 06:31:11 PM My own desire for border security has nothing to do with immigration. And it doesn't need to be a fence. What ever is necessary and most effective at keeping Mahmoud from sneaking in a dirty bomb. The fact that essentially a peasant can penetrate our border at will undetected is a huge concern. There was a republican from Pennsylvania who crossed the river into America twice on an elephant with a mariachi band accompanying him without being detected*. * Disclaimer: from memory, details are sketchy :lol: :afraid: Now that is funny and scary at the same time. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 05, 2011, 06:35:54 PM My own desire for border security has nothing to do with immigration. And it doesn't need to be a fence. What ever is necessary and most effective at keeping Mahmoud from sneaking in a dirty bomb. The fact that essentially a peasant can penetrate our border at will undetected is a huge concern. I was joking about the fence, but like I said, physical barriers only provide left and right limits of how to get around them. From personal experience, we learned lesson after lesson that for the 1000s of dollars we spent on counter-measures an insurgent usually found a bypass to affect us for less than a dollar. I have a very funny story I can share about one of those particular instances in a personal conversation should the opportunity ever arise. Yes, we can do more to increase out physical security measures. But, the best measures for prevention are made through extensive intelligence gathering (yet, another topic and more controversial topic of discussion). Threats to our homeland are just as likely (if not more likely) to be generated from within the current borders. And, like I said, the muslim terrorist organization that plans the next attack will most likely have utilized assets already in the country (equipment and personnel) or arrive here legally. So, what gain is there. But, in the spirit of job creation. We could reduce welfare allotments and create g'ment work opportunites along the border to reduce the amount of elephants that get through. Personally, I feel better about someone drawing a pay check for sitting in a stategiaclly placed watch tower with a radio to report to ground elements and intercept personnel crossing the border than I do about them sitting at hom making babies for a living. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 06:51:51 PM My own desire for border security has nothing to do with immigration. And it doesn't need to be a fence. What ever is necessary and most effective at keeping Mahmoud from sneaking in a dirty bomb. The fact that essentially a peasant can penetrate our border at will undetected is a huge concern. There was a republican from Pennsylvania who crossed the river into America twice on an elephant with a mariachi band accompanying him without being detected*. * Disclaimer: from memory, details are sketchy :lol: :afraid: Now that is funny and scary at the same time. Found it. http://righttruth.typepad.com/right_truth/2006/10/raj_elephants_o.html Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 06:56:53 PM >:( :pullhair:
Surely we can do better than that. Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Jamos on April 05, 2011, 07:13:29 PM Let's see, Auburn Trustees jumping ship and illegal immigrants working for minimum wage, somewhere I got lost. ???
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 07:15:49 PM Let's see, Auburn Trustees jumping ship and illegal immigrants working for minimum wage, somewhere I got lost. ??? I missed the turn too, but just went with it, how do you feel about illegal workers? Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 07:18:50 PM I have been thinking about splitting this off and moving this part down to the president's mansion.
Title: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 07:24:10 PM I have been thinking about splitting this off and moving this part down to the president's mansion. It's a good discussion and worthy of it's own thread, IMO. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 05, 2011, 07:28:16 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! It was ricky, #+ Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 05, 2011, 07:31:07 PM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! It was ricky, #+ Yep, it all started as an innocent little joke. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: cbbama99 on April 05, 2011, 09:15:05 PM Wow, I hate I haven't been on here much today. Just reviewing this thread has made me exhausted. Sounds like Marshal and Che were about to strap on the gloves.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ssmith general on April 06, 2011, 06:04:35 AM Quote Alabama House passes Arizona-style immigration law MONTGOMERY, Alabama -- The House of Representatives voted 73-28 this evening to pass an Arizona-style immigration law that gives law enforcement officers authority to detain people they suspect of being illegal immigrants. Bill sponsor Rep. Micky Hammon, R-Decatur, told legislators that the bill, "attacks every aspect of an illegal alien's life." "This bill is designed to make it difficult for them to live here so they will deport themselves," Hammon said during debate. The bill now goes to the Senate. Hammon said illegal immigrants in Alabama are costing taxpayers money and taking jobs from American citizens. But critics of the bill said it would encourage racial profiling and add to law enforcement costs, and they argued that immigration enforcement should be the job of the federal government. Hammon's bill would require police officers to demand proof of citizenship or residency from anyone they stop for a traffic violation or other infraction if there is reasonable suspicion the person is in the United States unlawfully. The officer would have to make a reasonable attempt to verify a person's citizenship status, and suspected illegal immigrants could be detained and charged with trespassing. The bill would require jails to hold people until officers can verify their immigration status. It would make it a crime to house, give a ride to, rent to or employ an illegal immigrant. More - http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2011/04/alabama_house_passes_arizona-s.html Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 06, 2011, 10:35:35 AM Quote It would make it a crime to house, give a ride to, rent to or employ an illegal immigrant. Really? So now I can go to jail if I give one of my little soccer players a ride home after practice? They expect me to check the status of her parents before I give her a ride? Come on now. This is not the solution. I don't have a problem with checking for a driver's license if they are driving the car. That should be a requirement under existing law, and I have never gone through a checkpoint or been pulled over where they didn't check my license and insurance. Nothing wrong with that. I also don't have a problem with checking their status before you give them a job. You are already supposed to do that. I just recently started a new job and was required to mail a notarized copy of my social security card to the corporate HR department. The housing part is new and not too bad, assuming they make it easy enough for a landlord to check the status before they rent the place. But expecting every day citizens to check the status of someone before they give you a ride is a little insane. Besides, if you enforce the one about employment then the others won't be necessary. They aren't coming here to get rides and rent apartments, they are coming here to get jobs. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 06, 2011, 10:39:00 AM Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR! It was ricky, #+ Yep, it all started as an innocent little joke. I sure am sorry I mde that statement you just don't know. I would never upset our fellow posters at all. I will sure ask before I make a post like this again. I ask for forgiveness. RTR! Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 06, 2011, 11:18:09 AM Quote It would make it a crime to house, give a ride to, rent to or employ an illegal immigrant. Really? So now I can go to jail if I give one of my little soccer players a ride home after practice? They expect me to check the status of her parents before I give her a ride? Come on now. This is not the solution. I don't have a problem with checking for a driver's license if they are driving the car. That should be a requirement under existing law, and I have never gone through a checkpoint or been pulled over where they didn't check my license and insurance. Nothing wrong with that. I also don't have a problem with checking their status before you give them a job. You are already supposed to do that. I just recently started a new job and was required to mail a notarized copy of my social security card to the corporate HR department. The housing part is new and not too bad, assuming they make it easy enough for a landlord to check the status before they rent the place. But expecting every day citizens to check the status of someone before they give you a ride is a little insane. Besides, if you enforce the one about employment then the others won't be necessary. They aren't coming here to get rides and rent apartments, they are coming here to get jobs. We could simplify all of the bad feelings that would arise among our "legal" citizens who simply forgot their license at home that day and were catching a ride from someone (obeying the law) and end up detained until their citizenship can be determined by making a 100% entry into biometric system scanner mandatory for ALL US citizens. We used the systems to great success in Iraq. It would serve not only to manage immigration issues more fairly without impeding the rights of legal citizens, but it would allow law enforcement a better method to identify criminals and wanted personnel. Make it a mandatory check for all persons who do not possess proper identification (checks finger prints and retinas against a data base). That way it is a back-up means that doesn't require placing legal citizens in jail for any period of time. But, I fall back on the fact that more good could be done by changes to social policies that would make it less desirable for them to live here as well. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on April 06, 2011, 02:28:26 PM Here's why illegal immigration is draining the country of limited resources. This cuts through all the propaganda the liberal media tries to put out. More than likely, this won't be reported on most liberal TV news shows.
http://www.newsmax.com/US/illegal-immigrant-families-welfare/2011/04/06/id/392017 Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 06, 2011, 02:50:17 PM 62% WOW that is crazy.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 06, 2011, 02:58:03 PM Here's why illegal immigration is draining the country of limited resources. This cuts through all the propaganda the liberal media tries to put out. More than likely, this won't be reported on most liberal TV news shows. http://www.newsmax.com/US/illegal-immigrant-families-welfare/2011/04/06/id/392017 Similar news that has always been at the heart of the immigration reform talks, but like I said, it is a policy issue in regard to social service reform that is clearly broken and being abused by all sides (legal and illegal). Laws can be made to prevent this abuse and make it less attractive to come to the US without the "round'em up" policies that no doubt will find many non-illegals being hassled. I am in favor of reform, just opposed to laws that are going to cause more problems than good as the current ones are designed to do. We can be smarter about how we create the change. Policies can be altered to put in place rules that only guarantee rights for citizenship for those born in the country legally (by right of blood ( jus sanguinis), born to authorized visitors with legal visas, etc.) but preclude guaranteed rights of citizenship to illegal born children as well as their access to all US social services and public institutions. That is not too difficult to achieve. In fact, following up on the need for effective migrant worker policies this would be one more manner of making it more attractive to come to the US legally and register as an authorized/approved migrant worker. It would enable your children the right to become dual citizens thus helping their own citizenship desires. But, even in that case, the rights to services should be limited in scope until the child is either of legal age and/or a ward of the state to prevent abuse by non-US citizens. Again, I'm advocating better systems, not dumber laws. I miss statesman that put the benfit of the country over the potential for personal gain (re-election). Maybe, term limits would help everything significantly, but that is yet another discussion. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 06, 2011, 03:07:00 PM YES WE ABSOLUTELY NEED TERM LIMITS! We have them for the President. There is no reason why we shouldn't have them for Senators.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 07, 2011, 10:17:05 AM Well I am here but I surely am reading and not replying. I done stirred up enough dust to blind the eyes of all. RTR!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on April 07, 2011, 10:23:08 AM Well I am here but I surely am reading and not replying. I done stirred up enough dust to blind the eyes of all. RTR! Don't worry about it. It was an innocent joke IMO. I think the dust has mostly settled now. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 07, 2011, 10:27:01 AM :-X yea SC. You know it kinda of made me feel like I said something bad but you know how it is. :rofl: I love these folks here they keep us in check. RTR!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on April 07, 2011, 10:31:29 AM :-X yea SC. You know it kinda of made me feel like I said something bad but you know how it is. :rofl: I love these folks here they keep us in check. RTR! I am ready for you to stir something else up. That was fun. :D Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 07, 2011, 10:32:57 AM :-X yea SC. You know it kinda of made me feel like I said something bad but you know how it is. :rofl: I love these folks here they keep us in check. RTR! I am ready for you to stir something else up. That was fun. :D Lordy no pmull, lol, I think being a preacher from the country i should still know better. rofl. RTR! Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: che boludo on April 07, 2011, 11:35:28 AM :-X yea SC. You know it kinda of made me feel like I said something bad but you know how it is. :rofl: I love these folks here they keep us in check. RTR! I am ready for you to stir something else up. That was fun. :D That was the funny part to me. The drawn out intent of my original post was mostly to play off of your joke and come around to jab the barn in the eye in that I wouldn't lump illegal aliens (neither the good ones nor the bad ones) in with the trash on the Booger Board of Trustees. But, other agendas prevailed...all for the greater good in my opinion though, so thanks. ;) Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on April 07, 2011, 02:00:23 PM Hey che I still love ya man, it is so good to see how many intelligent people we have and discussions and then it all comes out with friendship. RTR!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on July 19, 2011, 09:17:48 PM In hindsight, I guess the point is that Auburn sux and their board of trustees is finally getting a much needed face lift. What the Hell? Today is the first I've seen of this conversation. Maybe posted in the wrong thread?Sorry, Bamawv. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on July 19, 2011, 09:55:27 PM Well BAMAWV give us your feelings on this post. RTR!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: 2Stater on July 20, 2011, 08:48:05 PM In hindsight, I guess the point is that Auburn sux and their board of trustees is finally getting a much needed face lift. What the Hell? Today is the first I've seen of this conversation. Maybe posted in the wrong thread?Sorry, Bamawv. Me too. Dayum! :o Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on July 21, 2011, 01:59:14 AM In hindsight, I guess the point is that Auburn sux and their board of trustees is finally getting a much needed face lift. What the Hell? Today is the first I've seen of this conversation. Maybe posted in the wrong thread?Sorry, Bamawv. You do know that the President's Mansion is the appropriate forum for talking about politics, right? ;) Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on July 21, 2011, 04:14:51 AM Never thought to look here. Only kidding. Hey look, we've almost made it to fall practice. I've tried anything and everything to keep the conversation flowing during these dead days. I've even resorted to picking arguments with spammers. If London fog and long tailed cat in a room full of rockers have any better ideas to kill time, bring them forward. I sorta promise to quit being inappropriate after they break out the pads, and beg your forgiveness until then. TIA
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on July 21, 2011, 05:55:27 AM Never thought to look here. Only kidding. Hey look, we've almost made it to fall practice. I've tried anything and everything to keep the conversation flowing during these dead days. I've even resorted to picking arguments with spammers. If London fog and long tailed cat in a room full of rockers have any better ideas to kill time, bring them forward. I sorta promise to quit being inappropriate after they break out the pads, and beg your forgiveness until then. TIA :lol: #+ Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: ricky023 on July 21, 2011, 10:17:20 AM What happen to the Great Immigration Debate? Guess this got in wrong place or maybe there are immigrants in here? J/K RTR!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: cbbama99 on July 21, 2011, 11:17:14 AM The only immigration debate I have is where I am going to immigrate to and whose job there I will take so they can complain about Americans taking their jobs IF BHO is re-elected.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on July 21, 2011, 06:47:11 PM My daughter got him by an illegal today. The Mexican lady did not have a license, registration or insurance. Our insurance will pay for it but she is 21 and her rates have just gotten reasonable. We also have a $500 deductible. I know a guy who has a body shop and he said it would cost $4,000 to fix. Illegal immigrates by ass. I'm pissed.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on July 21, 2011, 06:54:55 PM I hope your daughter is OK.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on July 21, 2011, 06:59:06 PM I hope your daughter is OK. She's fine. Thanks for asking. The car is not doing too good. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on July 21, 2011, 07:07:06 PM I figured that was the case or you wouldn't have even mentioned the car.
This whole immigration situation is very frustrating. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: 2Stater on July 21, 2011, 08:57:07 PM I hope your daughter is OK. She's fine. Thanks for asking. The car is not doing too good. Glad she's ok, pmull. Is that the one in college? Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on July 21, 2011, 08:59:46 PM I hope your daughter is OK. She's fine. Thanks for asking. The car is not doing too good. Glad she's ok, pmull. Is that the one in college? Yes, the one you met. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: 2Stater on July 21, 2011, 09:03:52 PM I hope your daughter is OK. She's fine. Thanks for asking. The car is not doing too good. Glad she's ok, pmull. Is that the one in college? Yes, the one you met. Awesome! I know you're relieved. There is nothing worse than the phone call from a daughter when she's been in an accident. Tell her I said Hi. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on July 21, 2011, 09:08:09 PM I hope your daughter is OK. She's fine. Thanks for asking. The car is not doing too good. Glad she's ok, pmull. Is that the one in college? Yes, the one you met. Awesome! I know you're relieved. There is nothing worse than the phone call from a daughter when she's been in an accident. Tell her I said Hi. You go from relieved that she is OK to real ticked off once you find out the one that caused the accident does not have insurance, license or registration. Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: 2Stater on July 21, 2011, 09:15:47 PM My 3 daughters have had 5 accidents between them when they were in their teens. Only one was involved where the other driver didn't have insurance. Believe it or not, he was a civilian working at the Navy base here in P'cola. He bent over backwards to pay for the damages, rental car etc., so we wouldn't turn him in to his boss. NAS takes a dim view of their civilian employees not having car insurance. But I digress. My point is that I was pissed as well that this guy didn't have insurance, even though we took him to the mat.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on July 21, 2011, 09:43:04 PM My 3 daughters have had 5 accidents between them when they were in their teens. Only one was involved where the other driver didn't have insurance. Believe it or not, he was a civilian working at the Navy base here in P'cola. He bent over backwards to pay for the damages, rental car etc., so we wouldn't turn him in to his boss. NAS takes a dim view of their civilian employees not having car insurance. But I digress. My point is that I was pissed as well that this guy didn't have insurance, even though we took him to the mat. We had one daughter ram into the other one. Snow. I don't remember asking if they were hurt. >:(Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: 2Stater on July 21, 2011, 09:47:30 PM My 3 daughters have had 5 accidents between them when they were in their teens. Only one was involved where the other driver didn't have insurance. Believe it or not, he was a civilian working at the Navy base here in P'cola. He bent over backwards to pay for the damages, rental car etc., so we wouldn't turn him in to his boss. NAS takes a dim view of their civilian employees not having car insurance. But I digress. My point is that I was pissed as well that this guy didn't have insurance, even though we took him to the mat. We had one daughter ram into the other one. Snow. I don't remember asking if they were hurt. >:(#+ :lol: Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on July 29, 2011, 09:15:31 AM http://media.causes.com/1098660?m=6584a9cb
I hope this link works. Click 'watch again' if it links to the end of video instead of the beginning. :eye roll: Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on July 29, 2011, 05:18:49 PM http://media.causes.com/1098660?m=6584a9cb Bump for the evening shift.I hope this link works. Click 'watch again' if it links to the end of video instead of the beginning. :eye roll: Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on July 29, 2011, 05:27:00 PM Unbelievable! Our tax dollars at work. >:(
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: Marshal Dillon on August 08, 2011, 12:09:00 AM I'll get back with you guys later. This is an excellent discussion. My Latino wife has just come home to her racist, uneducated, ignorant husband and we are going to eat. :o I don't know how true those are or not, but she could help you with comprehension. ;) I got some bad news for you, she is as anti-illegal immigrant as me and my 19 year old son is off the graph against it. My son speaks English and Spanish totally fluently with no accent in either language. He used to come home all angry because he would overhear the Mexicans in places like Wal-Mart badmouthing our country or talking about how they were beating our system. Since he is blond with green eyes, they never thought he could understand them talking to each other. Some "mole", huh? Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on August 08, 2011, 10:43:39 AM Y'all be nice to Mexico. We all may be heading that way job hunting soon!
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: pmull on August 08, 2011, 10:49:56 AM Y'all be nice to Mexico. We all may be heading that way job hunting soon! I already am. They are building jails now and we are shipping more there than the US. No one is building anything in the states, at least not jails. >:( Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on August 08, 2011, 11:09:56 AM Y'all be nice to Mexico. We all may be heading that way job hunting soon! I already am. They are building jails now and we are shipping more there than the US. No one is building anything in the states, at least not jails. >:( Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: rueben on August 09, 2011, 07:33:30 PM I have a plan. Elect me, you will see.
Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: BAMAWV on August 09, 2011, 07:41:22 PM I have a plan. Elect me, you will see. What's your position on quantitative easing?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k Title: Re: The Great Immigration Debate Post by: SUPERCOACH on August 09, 2011, 08:29:06 PM I have a plan. Elect me, you will see. What's your position on quantitative easing?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTUY16CkS-k :lol: #+ #+ #+ #+ #+ That was hilarious! Too bad it is also accurate. :( |