Crimson Red Sports

The speculation is roaring and I found this site. I would not hire Jack del Rio, they can do better. I think Petrino is out of the picture, too.

Jesse Palmer says it will be Kevin Sumlin.

I like for someone who has championships through the school and who would have been a past player with Pat Haden or somewhat that type of personell. RTR!

Coach Saban flew to Los Angeles this morning.

 :tinfoil:

As a part time Vandy fan, I hope it isn't James Franklin.  Maybe they'll hire Derek Dooley? :lol:

 :lol: :lol:, good one Chechem. You stirring early huh?  :lol2: :lol2:, RTR!

Interesting choice. It would kill A&M fans if he left them for another college program. However, I don't see him going there. He has zero connection out West. He was a GA at Washington, that's it.

What do you all think of my list of USC candidates? I appreciate your input.


Mack Brown
Tommy Tuberville
Mike Shula
Ed Orgeron
Phil Fulmer
Rich Rodriguez
Dennis Franchione
Lou Holtz
Jerry Faust



 ???

You left off Sumlin.
I expect they'll name that idiot Orgeron as temporary HC.

(http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/kiffin.gif)

Shula does not belong on that list.

I hope he was kidding.  Needed a "bs" smilie.

Derek Dooley?

I like that.  Get him out of College Station before he causes us too much trouble.  :lol:

Dude, it's Stoo............oh, never mind.  :nah:

My two top candidates would be Jeff Fischer or Chris Petersen. The first because of past ties to Pat Haden and the second because of his winning games with less recruits than the ones that fill USCw teams every year. RTR!

You're right, he's too incompetent even for that list.


 :-X

Kiffin was their Shula. :lol2:

Kiffin nor Shula have what it takes to be successful head coaches. At least Shula has class, can not say that about Kiffin.

Agree!

Excellent post and very true. Kiffin is a punk.

I just think it's past time to leave Mike Shula alone.  He came in under tough circumstances, did his best, didn't cause any new problems, and moved on when the timing was better to get an experienced coach.

Dooley was Tennessee's Shula.

I actually pulled for Shula, up to the last "Darby up the middle". I have never wished him any ill will, such as getting smacked in the nards like I did with Franphony, (Did I post that out loud?  :-[ )

Having said that, Mike just didn't have the mental toughness to be head coach, especially at Bama. But he helped deliver us through the dark years. I will always respect him as a player and a person.

(http://usc.freedomblogging.com/files/2010/02/orgeron.0225.jpg)

Orgeron may be insane. 
I met with him once.  He nearly swallowed my arm with his handshake.

I think that Mike Price would be a good fit at Southern Cal and Francione would be an even better fit at Texas. :)

:lol:     :P

 :lol: I like the way you think!

Sorry, have to disagree. We must remember the past so we don't make the same mistake again. Same goes for DumBose, Bill Curry, & Mike Price. Those 3 were mistakes which deeply hurt the program. I know other posters grind their teeth when I or someone else criticizes a former coach/player, but that's just the way I feel. Self-inflicted incompetence is not acceptable.


 :D

Shula took our HC job when no one else wanted it. He was in over his head. He did the best he could it just did not meet our standards so he had to go. I still think of him fondly. He was a good QB for us in the mid 80's. One of my favorite players from the Perkins era.

Correct. People seem to forget that he brought us from 4th and 16, I think it was from around our own 10 yd line against Auburn in 1985, with less than a minute to go, to give Tiffin the shot at that winning 52 yarder. My favorite game of all time.

Meanwhile back at USCw... one name being mentioned in ESPN articles is Jack Del Rio, currently a coordinator with the Broncos.  Probably an after-the-season hire if it were to happen.

Yes, that's my point too.  We had just gone through Dubose, Franphony and Mike Price, were the laughing stock of the football world, had scholarship reductions and bowl bans.  Shula wasn't a mistake, he was the best we could do at the time.  Someone who, when momma called, dutifully left his NFL job and tried his best.  Yes, he was in over his head.  But he led that winning drive against Auburn -- which started a tradition in my family.  And Bama did have that one semi-magical season when they started 10-0, when Prothro got hurt in a blowout over highly ranked Florida, and the team just ran out of players and steam to stand toe-to-toe with Auburn and LSU at the end of the season.  Shula's family; you shouldn't make fun of your own.

Shula as a player was very good. He was starting QB in 85 & 86. In 85 he led us to a 9-2-1 record and # 13 finish. In 86 we went 10-3 with a # 9 finish. We won games over Ohio St, Notre Dame, Washington, Texas A&M and USCw.

Perkins played Shula during his true freshman year for a few downs in meaningless mop up duty in one game. That still makes me mad Perkins wasted that year.

Another note: Mrs pmull and my first date was the Notre Dame game in 1986.

Shula does not belong on that list, but you forgot someone who does: Franchione.  Remember the circumstances around the Shula hire.  Fran had just lied to everybody and slipped away in the middle of the night.  We had just fired Mike Price for the strip club incident.  This was well after spring football.  We hired Shula in May.  Who else do you think you could have gotten then?  As CP mention, Shula left his NFL job to come running when mama called.  He was qualified in that he met the only qualification we had at that time:  he was willing to take the job and baby sit us through our NCAA troubles.  He did his best with the players that he had, and brought some much needed class back to the position, which had been sorely lacking since Stallings.  We owe him our respect and gratitude.

 #+, well said SC. My compliments. He is still family to me.  :clap:, RTR!

I am glad to see my fellow posters are making the exact point I am stressing. Fans have an almost blind devotion to anyone connected to Alabama, especially former players, which in the past has caused our program many problems. Surprising to hear that NO ONE is defending Mike DumBose, whose connection to Alabama is a hundred times stronger than Shula. DumBose started at Alabama, played for Coach Bryant, was ALL SEC at LB (I think),was born and raised in Alabama, played on 3 SEC Championship teams, and a National Championship (1973), was a position coach at Alabama for around 10 years, and won an SEC Championship as HC in 1999. The aroma of hypocrisy is very strong in the air right now. No one defends DumBose because he cheated on his wife, caused major sanctions to fall on the Tide, but mainly he was a LOUSY coach, just like Shula.

After Shula graduated from Alabama, he returned ONCE in 18 years for some event. Wow, he really had strong feelings and a connection to the university, didn't he? As far as Shula leaving his NFL job (QB coach making maybe $150,000 a year to take the head coaching job at a MAJOR university paying over $500,000) give me a break. It was a major upgrade for him. My overall point is, he should never of been hired, period. The AD & President screwed up, again. Joe Kines was on the staff and had prior HC experience. He should have been made interim HC then the Tide could have found a better candidate as coach for the next year. Same goes for DumBose & Curry. Curry was a proven loser at Georgia Tech, but Joab Thomas, then President of UA said that Bobby Bowden, who desperately wanted the job, did poorly on his job interview. I'm sure preppy-looking Curry made a better impression on a liberal school president than a short, stocky, down-home Bobby Bowden. How did that work out? DumBose had been a career position coach with 1 year as a DC. He should have never been selected as head coach based on such a resume` but guess what, he was the blindly devoted fan's choice and he was one of "Bear's Boys.". The athletic department received over 15,000 phone calls & emails to hire DumBose as head coach. How did the blindly devoted fan's choice work out for the football program?

I am scared to death the same situation will occur again when Saban finally retires. Fan's will demand a former or current Saban coach, who has not proved himself as a head coach first, be hired to replace him.
I don't care what if any connection a person has to the university, I want the best coach possible for the job, even if he graduated from Auburn, Georgia, or Notre Dame.

This is not an attack on any poster or fan because I really care about you guys and I think most of you are fine folks, but don't let your heart run away from your brain.


 :-*

I never wanted Dubose, Curry, Franchione, or Price.  I did want Shula, but that was because I wanted some stability with someone who would stick around until we were out of trouble with the NCAA.  We did not need another coach that would leave us hanging.  We paid Shula enough that he wasn't going anywhere.

Joe Kines had 1 year of head coaching experience with a 3-6-1 record.  Naming him interim coach for a year would not have helped.  A year later we still would not have been able to get a top name coach, and probably would have been locked in for 7 years with another Price or Franchione type coach.  2007 was the first year a big time coach would even be seriously interested.  When you are in NCAA trouble your coaching choices are limited and you have to go with someone like Shula.  Mal played the hand he was dealt quite well in my opinion, and upgraded as soon as he had the opportunity.

Dubose embarrassed the program with his personal life and the way he ran our program. He took over a stable program from Stallings and ran it in the ground. He should have been fired for his off the field issues and not for losing.

Mike Shula, while not a good coach, was a class person and represented us with integrity. I can't say that about Mike Dubose.

Glad to hear you were one of the more sane Tide fans who did not want DumBose. I was ambivalent about Price since I did not know much about him, except that he had taken Wash. State to the Rose Bowl twice. I thought Franchione was a good coach based on his record, but never anticipated him leaving Alabama the way he did. Also, there is no way we will ever know if we could have found a decent coach after Kines had been interim coach so that is just conjecture. We do know that Shula was a disaster. Plus, there were MANY fans who wanted to give Shula a 5th year and another chance. Amazing isn't it, what blind, ignorant devotion does to a person?

My response about this issue is more about the FUTURE and not the past. I really hope fans have learned something from the recent past and won't be obsessed with hiring one of "Saban's Boys" when he retires or we will be going down another risky path. I repeat, I want a proven coach who wins and I don't care where he went to college, where he previously coached, or if he speaks with a Yankee accent. I want a proven winner, period.


 :D




 :deadhorse:

Saying Kines would have been better than Shula is conjecture as well.

So, in the interest of moving the conversation forward, if Saban were to retire after this year, who would you want as a replacement?

Wow, I have not given this any thought so I am caught somewhat off-guard. Off the top of my head without any deep thought my list would have the following names:


James Franklin
Hugh Frieze
Art Briles
Jimbo Fisher
Al Golden
Dabo Sweeney
Lane Kiffin-Is he available?

This list I came up with after 5 minutes of thought. I will think of some more after more concentration and would like some input from you & other posters. I am probably missing someone who is an obvious choice.


 ???

I like the idea of Dabo, and perhaps Al Golden. I don't think Jimbo would leave FSU (unless we gave him an INSANE amount of money). Not sold on any of the others on this list. Frieze has potential, as does Franklin, but neither has still proven much yet. No way do I want Art Briles. He REALLY hasn't proven anything, other than he can beat a vastly underachieving Texas team. Lane couldn't get hired at Little Sisters of the Poor.

Chris Peterson?
Gary Barnett?

I agree with your assessment, they have shown potential and would not be the #1 choice. Peterson ain't leaving the West and Gary Barnett is over 65 years old. Briles did a solid job at Kentucky and has done the same at Baylor. He deserves a hard look. Fisher might prefer the SEC over the mighty ACC. I am still thinking about other possible replacements.

 :think:

Didn't realize Gary up to that age (I won't say old, in respect to my elders here on the board.   :lol2: :lol2: )

I would put my money on Golden. With all the crap that Miami has gone through, he has managed to do a good recruiting job and has kept the team respectable.

Don't underestimate Kirby. He has been in Saban's system a long time and can recruit as well as anybody out there.

If I were Bill Battle, providing he is still here when CNS decides to retire ('cause he ain't going to another team), I would give those 2 the hardest look.

Yeah, I floated the Dabo idea a few weeks ago.  Bama connections and successful head coaching experience.  He'd probably be my first choice, unless one of the Harbaughs decided he wanted back in the college game, or Saban calls his buddy Belichick.

Picking an assistant coach with zero HC experience is like a 4 year old playing with a gun. Very dangerous and highly undesirable.


 :tinfoil:

Seriously, MD? A 4 year old with a gun?  :lol2:

I would equate KS with Dabo only much better. Dabo was never a head coach and had Tommy Bowden as a mentor. Meh! Kirby has had the grand master as his mentor and is a better recruiter than Dabo. Dabo has had to develop along the way as a head coach. Kirby has the formula in a bottle.

IMO, Dabo will never win a NC. I think Kirby can.

I have to disagree with you, my friend.  ;)

I don't know about Jim, but John just signed an immense contract extension with the Ravens.

The Harbaughs are a dream only. How about adding these to the list:

Charlie Strong
Paul Rhoads

Both are defensive-minded coaches.

Folks remember, just because we are Alabama does not mean we can pick and choose who we want. Forget Gruden, the Harbaughs, Stoops, & other very high profile coaches.


 :popcorn2:

I really like Kirby too, although that violates MD's rule.  :lol:

The reason I like him though is that he knows the defense and pretty much runs the show on that side of the ball.  I'm certain our defense would be solid under him, and as we all know defense wins championships.

I also really like Jimbo and Dabo.  I'm not really interested in the others.  Note:  Jimbo and Dabo are in their first HC gigs, and they are doing OK.  I have no reason to believe that Kirby couldn't do that good as well.

A new name I would add to the list is Kevin Sumlin.

I would probably go after Jimbo, Dabo, Sumlin, and then Kirby if I couldn't get one of those guys.  I would certainly take Kirby over Frieze, Briles, Franklin, etc.

Although before I say Sumlin, let's see how they do after JF leaves.  :lol:

You violated your own standards. You said at the end of THIS year. No cheating.


 ;)

:lol:

I guess I would have to go back and scrutinize what he did at Houston then.  I never paid any attention to him until they beat us last year.

I didn't pick Sumlin since I think he goes pro after this year and if he doesn't go pro I don't think he would leave A&M for Bama. I think we have mentioned all the realistic candidates to replace Saban if he retired after this season. Here is my opinion of the best qualified based on their HC experience and chance (no matter how slim) of hiring.



Al Golden
Charlie Strong
Dabo Sweeney
Jimbo Fisher
Hugh Freeze
James Franklin

I think Saban would recommend Fisher as the first choice & Golden second (imo).


 ???

I would put a lot of stock in whoever CNS recommends.  In fact, I would have him heavily involved in the search if he would be willing to do it.

What in the world makes you guys think you can predict the behavior of a group of people who picked Kiffin as their head coach in the first place? Might as well guess Pee Wee Herman, or one of the Kardashians.

I doubt Jimbo would leave recruiting rich Florida for Alabama.  I'm not sold on Hugh Freeze anymore, maybe those fourth down attempts were just growing pains and he will learn from it.  The rest are viable candidates. 

I agree in part with you about Kirby Smart -- I'd prefer a proven head coach -- but I don't think he would be nearly as dangerous as your analogy.  While Dabo is in his first Head Coaching gig, he has had growing pains.  I think the same would happen with Kirby -- it would take 2-3 years just to get comfortable in the big chair.  Both Dabo and Kirby are excellent recruiters -- an essential quality in a head coach.  Freeze and Jimbo can recruit also.  I'm not as sure about the rest.

I doubt that USC would hire a gimmick-offense (West Coast) coach.  
Traditionally they're an I-formation, power team.  Expect that again.
Likely they'll take someone from the NFL, or at least with NFL experience.  Gruden? More likely Jack Del Rio.  :dunno:

Here we are getting in dangerous territory. These are almost the exact excuses folks were using when discussing Shula. Give him time to learn how to be a head coach, he just needs some time to learn the ropes, etc. Alabama is not a place for someone to learn how to coach. They must know how to be a HC when they get here. Coaches learn how to be a HC at 2nd tier teams, not at Alabama, USC, Texas, Ohio State, Oklahoma, or similar major programs. Kirby Smart MIGHT be a great HC straight from the assistants role, but I do not want to take that risk when proven HC's are available. Do we really want an Ed Orgeron, Mike DumBose, Jeff Blake, Mike Shula, Gary DiNardo, and so on, mistake on our hands?


 :dog:

Who would accept this job here for the very reasons you all have stated. Who wants to walk into a place that Hero just left winning all these NCG's. He or They would know they are behind the eight ball from the get go. I hope we don't have to worry about this for another 6 to 8 years. RTR!

Excellent point. Also, fans will expect another Saban/Bryant type winning which just will not happen. The odds against that are incredible. There was only one Paul Bryant and one Saban.

 #+, Well said MD. The greatest 2 football coaches of all time have walked in the mist of our halls.  :clap:, RTR!

Retiring coaches always recommend a top assistant, like Kirby Smart, when they retire. They feel bad they are leaving all their loyal assistants without a job if a new guy comes in. Therefore, the retiring coach recommendation does not carry a lot of weight IMO.

I agree with MD that hiring an assistant is a dangerous move. There are many good assistants that are not cut out to be head coaches. I am not against Kirby being our next coach but I think he needs to be a head coach for a few years to see how he does out from underneat CNS shadow.

I just hope we go after the best hire available when the time comes.

Comparing Smart and Shula is apples and oranges.  Shula had no college coaching experience, Smart has sat behind the master.

I'm not saying he would be my first choice, but he may be the best choice available, if no one else wants to fill Saban's shoes.

BINGO!!!!! Exactly my reasoning. Plus, I am somewhat uneasy that we may be giving Smart too much credit as the defensive genius of the team. This is Saban's defense and he is the defensive genius & Smart might be getting too much credit. Just a thought.


 :dunno:

mighty big shoes we are trying to fill here  :dunno:

those statues out in front of BDS won't be easily matched
finding someone to join them will be very hard

 :dunno:

Unless we are incredibly lucky, we will hire a coach with a good resume` but nothing outstanding. Someone like a Dabo, Briles, Gundy, Franklin, etc. Not saying these guys will be hired, but that we will probably end up with an up-and-coming coach instead of a proven NC coach like Saban.


 :casablanca:

There aren't that many NC coaches around any more since Saban started winning them every year.  :lol:

Certainly not one I would want:

Gene Chizik
Urban Meyer
Les Miles
Mack Brown
Pete Carroll
Jim Tressel

 :lol:

You forgot:

Phil Fulmer
Larry Coker

I did indeed forget those guys.  :lol:

Guys, calm down. You're having too much fun. This thread is about replacements for LANE KIFFIN. Focus and get back on subject.



 :behave:

A bizzare story about the USC coaching search.

 ???