The Great Immigration Debate

[ricky023]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

[SUPERCOACH]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everyhwere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

                             

[che boludo]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens.

The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs.  They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay.

Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages.  Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals.

Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy.  That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it.  It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories.

I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally."

Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states.  Read up on your history.  The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land.  Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land.  Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region.

I love this nation and what it stands for.  I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise.

And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state.

[dpa1paco]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens.

The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs.  They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay.

Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages.  Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals.

Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy.  That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it.  It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories.

I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally."

Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states.  Read up on your history.  The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land.  Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land.  Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region.

I love this nation and what it stands for.  I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise.

And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state.



 

[pmull]

Che I agree with a lot of what you said. I am all for the American dream. I am for anyone who wants to come here to built a better life for them and their families provided they obey the laws, follow the rules, pay taxes and learn the english language. Illegals that do not pay taxes and do not get health and auto insurance is a problem. Our schools and health care are struggling. Illegals are a big reason why.

[che boludo]

Che I agree with a lot of what you said. I am all for the American dream. I am for anyone who wants to come here to built a better life for them and their families provided they obey the laws, follow the rules, pay taxes and learn the english language. Illegals that do not pay taxes and do not get health and auto insurance is a problem. Our schools and health care are struggling. Illegals are a big reason why.

Illegals who also have to work for less than minimum wage just to survive while providing a positive benefit to the American economy most likely have more trouble filing their taxes, and paying for mandatory insurance policies, etc.  What is the excuse for the obese, chain smoking, unwed, white mother of four who lives off of government support and fails to work or buy the same insurance policies as it cuts into her Natty Lite fund for the weekend?

The problem is not immigration policies themselves.  It is the inability of government agencies to enforce the rules as they exist.  Far more "legal" Americans fail to pay taxes, buy insurance, follow the laws, and properly learn the English language than "illegals."

If agencies were more vigilant in enforcing the existing rules and simply strengthening the rules for government assistance as it applies to ALL, the US would be in much better shape as it pertains to the drain that a broken social service systems causes.

The agenda of some is to not address the issue that our systems are broken. Instead, it is easier to focus on a small microcosm of the problem and blame them for all problems as they are probably not registered voters so pointing the finger at them doesn't hurt campaigns as much as truly fixing the problems with abuse of the system that exist by "legal" Americans.

The only thing that is coming from the agenda is a shift in racial tensions toward Latin-Americans both "legal" and "illegal."  A very similar thing happened during our last great recession as a nation.  Look up the Mexican Reparation.  It constituted a 10 year period of "purging" Latino Americans from the US as they were blamed for draining the economy. About one million persons of Mexican descent (who were probably simply brown Spanish speaking people, more so than true Mexicans) were relocated to Mexico.  Over half of them were LEGAL Us citizens.  Looks like we have come a long way in our policies and political rhetoric since that time...(please note sarcasm as it is pretty thick).

So, let us fix the problem and not create more uneccesary hate in our country.  Especially amongst some families that have lived in America much longer than my family or yours.

As far as the language requirement, as long as there is no official language for the US then they can speak what they want in my opinion. 

Personally, I think the education system should require fluency in both English and at least one "foreign" language as a HS graduation requirement.  It would have positive effects across the full spectrum of the learning process. Forcing yourself to learn, speak, write, and understand a foreign language does more to activate brain activity than most artistic endeavors and it would only serve to diminish some of our egos that we have as Americans.

[SUPERCOACH]

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I agree with this 100%.  I have a tremendous amount of respect for the local Hispanic population.  Sure, there are a few trouble makers, but the great majority of them are just poor folks trying to make a better life for their family.  They remind me an awful lot of myself growing up.  There is no sense of entitlement with them, they are here to work hard for what they get, and are just thankful for the opportunity.  Many MANY U.S. born citizens would do well to follow their example.

I apologize if my laughing at the joke offended anyone.

[Marshal Dillon]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens.

The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs.  They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay.

Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages.  Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals.

Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy.  That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it.  It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories.

I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally."

Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states.  Read up on your history.  The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land.  Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land.  Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region.

I love this nation and what it stands for.  I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise.

And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state.

Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD.
I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY.

This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth.

[Chechem]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens.

The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs.  They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay.

Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages.  Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals.

Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy.  That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it.  It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories.

I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally."

Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states.  Read up on your history.  The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land.  Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land.  Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region.

I love this nation and what it stands for.  I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise.

And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state.

Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD.
I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY.

This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth.

Look, MY PEOPLE only got to this country about 15,000 years ago.  Is it okay if I stay this time?  Or should I move to Indiana  Illinois  Oklahoma  ... um, what's left?

[Marshal Dillon]

Well sounds to me like the problems need people who are ready to fix it. So many openings they should put some illegal aliens on there they need representation also. If they are everywhere else they should be on the board at Auburn. RTR!

The average "illegal" alien which came here to realize a part of the American dream has a very strong sense of religion, strong familial bonds, values, and a much stronger work ethic than those that represent the majority of our country.

I would much rather have people that want to be here and are willing to risk everything to be a part of the freedoms we have instead of fat, lazy, idiots that solely want to sit on their duffs at the welfare office and complain about "illegal" aliens.

The fact remains that "illegals" are not stealing any one's jobs.  They are mostly doing jobs that the average lazy, unemployed American feels they are above doing...especially for such little pay.

Also, the "illegal" workforce is probably providing a greater service of price stability for primary goods than anything that this administration or the last did for the economy by way of "stimulus" packages.  Just imagine what the price of an orange or even a pound of chicken would cost in the US market if those industries didn't cut costs by hiring illegals.

Love it or hate it, they are vital to our economy.  That is why no real legislation has been done to prevent it.  It does make a fun rallying cry for some around the nation, but it comes across as hateful non-sense as they try and focus on every negative story/issue linked to an illegal committing a crime and avoid any positive stories.

I'd guarantee you that a large portion of our population has its roots in families that did not come to this country "legally."

Last, in the case of Mexican-Americans and aside from the native Americans, they have a stronger claim to the lands of Texas, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and California than most current residents of those states.  Read up on your history.  The Texas Revolution and Mexican-American wars were for no other reason than to expand national boundaries and steal land.  Many army officers involved in the latter stated that the war against Mexico was shameful and there was no glory., honor or sense in overpowering Mexico solely for its land.  Not to mention the century long intervention policies that have helped maintain the levels of instability across central America that is the root of the problem as to why so many want to leave the region.

I love this nation and what it stands for.  I won't fault others for doing wanting to be a part of it...legally or otherwise.

And, I definitely wouldn't lump that group in with the corrupt politicians in Alabama and Barners that continue to disgrace the entire state.

Ah yes, the usual LA RAZA crowd propaganda. This is MY country, not the illegals country, PERIOD.
I'm the one who served seven years in the military for MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who's been paying taxes for 40 years to MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who was born in MY COUNTRY. I'm the one who obeys the laws of MY COUNTRY.

This is MY COUNTRY and I'm damned proud of what it's done to take a wilderness and turned it into the greatest country ever on Earth.

Look, MY PEOPLE only got to this country about 15,000 years ago.  Is it okay if I stay this time?  Or should I move to Indiana  Illinois  Oklahoma  ... um, what's left?

 

[che boludo]

This is our country.

Plenty of non-US citizens are fighting in the same military that you served and dying for "our" country while their families are working 2+ jobs at home and putting up with this crap.  I know as I have served in two different theaters of war alongside some those Soldiers and have stood at the funerals of the same. 

No, English was not their strongest suit nor that of their parents who lost their child.  But, their love for this country and desire to be a part of it far surpassed that of many "legal" Americans.

Again, nothing I stated wasn't factual.  Either you can open your mind to see both sides of the story or continue to buy into the "they're all out to get us" mentality. 

I agree that the system needs to change but the focus should be on addressing the real issues instead of creating and fostering more "they're stealing our jobs, raping our women, selling drugs to school kids, and not paying taxes" BS that is the real propaganda which only leads to hate speak from both sides.

We are a country where the ends have justified the means and I am very proud of that as well (even if mistakes were made along the way...which there were).  The danger is if we continue to let rhetoric keep us from progressing as a nation.  As it is much easier to fuel the flames of hate to win elections and isolate/demonize small pockets of our communities than it is to create a positive change that truly addresses this issues. 

Our social welfare system is broken and we stink as a nation when it comes to promoting job creation and providing educational/job skill opportunity training.  Let us fix that and get back to a country that is leading the world in innovation and technology, not outsourcing the R&D for it while casting the blame for our national problems on the lowest common denominator. 

The majority of Americans pay nothing in taxes each year.  My after tax income is well above the national average and I receive 2500+ back in tax refunds each year.  How is that representative of efficiency in taxation?  But, you're right.  Illegals are obviously our key problem with the US.  Let's all round them up and send them back to Mexico...wait we already did that after the Great Depression.  Give me a break with the "my country" crap.

FIX THE PROBLEMS.. I am just tired of politicians and special interest groups creating NEW problems to avoid dealing with real issues.

This is true for most every divisive issue in the US, not just immigration reform.  I'd simply prefer to fix the problem and not foster the hate which is the underbelly of all "illegal" alien propaganda. 

[Chechem]

  for Che. 

[Marshal Dillon]

Che:

It's obvious you have some personal axe to grind about this wonderful country and am embrassed to be an American. Also, your propaganda won't work with most of us. You need to stop trying to quote La Raza. This is MY COUNTRY and if you think that's crap, you have a huge chip on your shoulder for this country. Also, please show me where I said illegals were the biggest problem in this country. Please get your info correct if you're going to point at someting I said. If an illegal serves in our military, he can then become a citizen and more power to him.

[SUPERCOACH]

It sounds like a lot of you have thought about this issue quite a bit.  It is a tough problem.  How do we solve it?

Here are some of my random thoughts, in no particular order:

1.  We have to secure the border.  This has nothing to do with immigration, but national security.  The fact that is so easy for people to cross the border at will is a big concern.

2.  Once the border is secure, it seems like we need more legal immigration.  Their is obviously a demand for more LEGAL immigration than what we have right now.  I don't see why we have to arbitrarily limit the number of people who can come into the country legally to such a low number and force so many to come here illegally.  The economy needs them and they want to come here.  Let's do it the right way.

3.  Any sort of drug activity should result in immediate deportation.  Traffic tickets should be nothing more than a fine like any other citizen would pay.  I guess the point here is if they do something that results in a prison sentence, send them back instead of putting them in jail here.

4.  Any foreign national who serves in the military and is discharged honorably should be offered immediate citizenship for them and their immediate family.

5.  What do we do with those who are here already?  On the one hand, I don't want them to be rewarded for coming in illegally when there are people who have been waiting in line for years to come in the legal way.  But you can't just send them home either.  I can't blame a single one of them for coming here.  I would do the same thing, I just happened to be blessed by being born in Alabama.  It is silly to say we can't take them all, they are already here.  If we opened up immigration so that we had the same number of official visas as we currently have people here illegally, and then start issuing them to people already on the waiting list, I think most of them will go back and get in line as fast as possible.  If the number of spots is high enough, then we will be able to take them all back the right way, and the issue would be settled.  Maybe the last 10% or 20% of them end up having to wait in line for a few years.  Our government is to blame here.  It is the governments responsibility to secure the border and have a sound immigration policy.  If we don't, then we can't really blame the guys who came here to try and make a better life for themselves, knowing the government would look the other way.  I will also tell you this:  I know of one local factory that put up billboards in Mexico telling people when the got across the border to come to them and they would give them a job.  Can you really blame the immigrants for coming?

It is a tough problem.  One thing I am absolutely convinced of is this:  CRS stands a much better chance to figure out the correct solution than Washington.

[che boludo]

I have no axe to grind with the country.  Only its narrow minded fools on both sides of the aisles.

I am not familiar with La RAZA or its propaganda, but I have taken the time to educate myself and experience life for what it is.  

Looking at life through a coke straw doesn't give you the perspective to make any informed opinion.

You know nothing about me, but your failure to see my comments as the middle ground approach toward creating real change that they were says a lot about you.

I am not embarrassed of my citizenship and genuinely take offense to that as I am willing to bet that I have done more to honor that citizenship than you...without going so far as to guarantee it, as like you of me, I don't know you or your history.  

But, I am disappointed with those within it that are so narrow minded as to take such a strong stance on what is nothing more than a new racial agenda as opposed to addressing the root of the problem and dealing with it directly.  But, like I said, it is much easier to create strong feelings of division than to face real issues.

Sorry if you fit that category, but I'd thank you to not challenge my patriotism nor sense of obligation and gratitude to our nation as I am certain you wouldn't do it to my face...at least not more than once.

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