JFK

[Hannibal Lecter, MD]

Great thread.  I have enjoyed reading to this point. 

I was born in 79, so obviously I was swimming at the time of the assassination. 

I have been fascinated by this since I was a child.  I have always believed there was more to the story.  From Jackie saying "They've shot Jack" to the single bullet theory; none of it added up in my head.  I have no theory, but I can say that to pull something of this magnitude off, you would have had to had cooperation from the military, the CIA, the top levels of government, the most powerful business men at the time, and the mafia(yes the mafia; only the military, CIA, and the government were more powerful at the time).  I don't think we will ever find out the truth, but its very intriguing to think about.

 
The quote about "They shot Jack" is not a surprise.
The confusion comes from the misquote (it wasn't Jackie) and taking it out of context. 
(Texas) Gov. John Connally's wife had addressed the President just before the first shot.  Here is her testimony at the inquiry:

Mrs. CONNALLY. In fact the receptions had been. So good every place that I had showed much restraint by not mentioning something about it before.
I could resist no longer. When we got past this area I did turn to the President and said, "Mr. President, you can't say Dallas doesn't love you."
Then I don't know how soon, it seems to me it was very soon, that I heard a noise, and not being an expert rifleman, I was not aware that it was a rifle. It was just a frightening noise, and it came from the right.
I turned over my right shoulder and looked back, and saw the President as he had both hands at his neck.
Mr. SPECTER. And you are indicating with your own hands, two hands crossing over gripping your own neck?
Mrs. CONNALLY. Yes; and it seemed to me there was--he made no utterance, no cry. I saw no blood, no anything. It was just sort of nothing, the expression on his face, and he just sort of slumped down.
Then very soon there was the second shot that hit John. As the first shot was hit, and I turned to look at the same time, I recall John saying, "Oh, no, no, no." Then there was a second shot, and it hit John, and as he recoiled to the right, just crumpled like a wounded animal to the right, he said, "My God, they are going to kill us all."

Click here for link

So you're saying that Jackie didn't say "They've shot Jack?"

[Chechem]

[...

So you're saying that Jackie didn't say "They've shot Jack?"

The story of her saying that came from Jim Marrs (wrote a conspiracy book about JFK), who was interviewed during the late 1980s.  Maybe he was right, but more likely his source heard Mrs. Connally say it.  Nobody knows for sure now.

Click here for link

[Hannibal Lecter, MD]

[...

So you're saying that Jackie didn't say "They've shot Jack?"

The story of her saying that came from Jim Marrs (wrote a conspiracy book about JFK), who was interviewed during the late 1980s.  Maybe he was right, but more likely his source heard Mrs. Connally say it.  Nobody knows for sure now.

Click here for link

The "official" museum credits it to Mrs. Kennedy, and I've seen other eye witness accounts that credit it to her.  Although after this much time it's hard to tell what's true recollection and what's been fabricated in people's minds.  Memory is a funny thing.

[Chechem]

[...

So you're saying that Jackie didn't say "They've shot Jack?"

The story of her saying that came from Jim Marrs (wrote a conspiracy book about JFK), who was interviewed during the late 1980s.  Maybe he was right, but more likely his source heard Mrs. Connally say it.  Nobody knows for sure now.

Click here for link

The "official" museum credits it to Mrs. Kennedy, and I've seen other eye witness accounts that credit it to her.  Although after this much time it's hard to tell what's true recollection and what's been fabricated in people's minds.  Memory is a funny thing.

True, memories vary.
But the issue here is the term "THEY".  The context of that was in reference to the conversation taking place (pacle) in the car at the time of the first shot.  Mrs. Connally was saying that 'Dallas loves Kennedy', in reference to the large turnout and success of the campaign there.  When shots rang out, it followed that the statement was in reference to "them" (people of Dallas).  That's what I understood from it, and why I don't think it had anything at all to do with Mrs. Kennedy or Gov. Connally acknowledging a conspiracy or seeing multiple gunmen.  The testimony they gave afterward said they were confused by the shots, the direction of the shots, and the number fired.  Mrs. Connally even said she didn't remember hearing but 2 shots.  She called the 2nd and 3rd shots both "the second shot".  Not surprising.

Bottom line: There were plenty of people happy to see JFK out of office (Hoover, Castro, Cuban Americans who supported the Bay of Pigs invasion, Khrushchev, some mafia folks, and Lee Oswald).  Lee Oswald was there, owned the rifle, and had motive.  He hated the CIA and FBI, and didn't trust anyone in government.  Whether anyone else was involved besides him, we'll never know.

Like someone said when the USSR collapsed:  "I'd like to get into the KGB computers and enter 'Oswald' to see what comes up."

[Chechem]

CBS Sunday Morning is airing a thorough story about JFK. 
NOW, TODAY!

[XBAMA]

CBS Sunday Morning is airing a thorough story about JFK. 
NOW, TODAY!

that is one of my favs to watch on Sunday's
sometimes it is pretty good 

[Hannibal Lecter, MD]

CBS Sunday Morning is airing a thorough story about JFK. 
NOW, TODAY!

ESPN (or one of the ESPN family) was also airing a story about the NFL's decision to play the following Sunday, and a little about the nation's reaction to Dallas and its people, including the Cowboys.  Lots of interviews and stories (including Lee Roy Jordan).

[2Stater]

CBS Sunday Morning is airing a thorough story about JFK. 
NOW, TODAY!

that is one of my favs to watch on Sunday's
sometimes it is pretty good 

The show was quite good this morning. Well done.

[Chechem]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxwlyvCBqAk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxwlyvCBqAk</a>

I just watched this video on the National Geographic Channel.  It's excellent.

If nothing else, watch between min 25:00 - 26:00 (The Magic Bullet).

[SUPERCOACH]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxwlyvCBqAk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxwlyvCBqAk</a>

I just watched this video on the National Geographic Channel.  It's excellent.

If nothing else, watch between min 25:00 - 26:00 (The Magic Bullet).

I've seen a couple of different shows that prove that a single bullet could have hit both men in the exact locations where their injuries occurred, without any sort of "magic" trajectory.  I've been convinced of that for a while.

The thing that has me intrigued now though is the fact that the headshot bullet was a hollow point round that exploded on impact while the bullet that passed through both of them was a full metal jacket round that was designed to go through people without exploding.  I suppose it is possible that Oswald used two different kinds of ammunition, but it seems strange at the very least.  Also, the entry wound in JFK's head was too small for Oswald's rifle, but we are talking millimeters here.  It is hard to know if the autopsy measurements were that accurate, but if they are, there is no doubt a second gun was involved.  Did Oswald have two guns?  Not likely.  If we could track down convincing evidence that the entry wound measurement in the back of the skull is accurate, then that would be huge.  Did they use some sort of caliper, or did they just stick a metal ruler up there and eyeball it?  I want to know the margin of error for the entry wound measurement.

[Chechem]

I just watched this video on the National Geographic Channel.  It's excellent.
If nothing else, watch between min 25:00 - 26:00 (The Magic Bullet).

...
The thing that has me intrigued now though is the fact that the headshot bullet was a hollow point round that exploded on impact while the bullet that passed through both of them was a full metal jacket round that was designed to go through people without exploding.  I suppose it is possible that Oswald used two different kinds of ammunition, but it seems strange at the very least.  Also, the entry wound in JFK's head was too small for Oswald's rifle, but we are talking millimeters here.  It is hard to know if the autopsy measurements were that accurate, but if they are, there is no doubt a second gun was involved.  Did Oswald have two guns?  Not likely.  If we could track down convincing evidence that the entry wound measurement in the back of the skull is accurate, then that would be huge.  Did they use some sort of caliper, or did they just stick a metal ruler up there and eyeball it?  I want to know the margin of error for the entry wound measurement.

I've never seen anything supporting the hollow-point bullet hypothesis, other than the implication that a hollow point might have caused a larger exit wound.  The shell casings and everything else about Oswald indicated that he used the same ammunition for all 3 shots.  People in the room below Oswald (watching out the windows) reported hearing the 3 shots, then hearing the casings hit the floor above them.

The details for the autopsy have always confounded people.  I do not know the details well, but it was my understanding that someone (physician?) rushed to prepare the body for transport from Dallas.  Recall, LBJ and Mrs. Kennedy insisted on waiting for the body before they left Dallas, while the Secret Service was rushing for everyone to board Air Force One asap.  Time was short and everyone in a hurry to get LBJ affirmed as President, and get him out of Dallas (away from any further threat).  I'd heard that JFK's brain, or what was left of it, was removed in Dallas.  They awaited a casket, then rushed the body aboard AF1 as soon as it arrived.  

The physicians may have affected the bullet-entry wound during their emergency surgery.  The scalp was pulled away, etc.  The autopsy in Washington DC was apparently rushed also, and inadequately performed considering the circumstances.  Beyond that, I'd enjoy knowing more too.

edit: I found this autopsy-conspiracy video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2y7MGtleKY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2y7MGtleKY</a>

[Chechem]

News story this morning about the plans in Dallas for the 50th anniversary.  They're cleaning up the area where the assassination occurred, and removed the "X" on the street that marked the spot where the kill shot occurred.

Apparently it was put there by "vendors" (tour guides?).

[2Stater]

News story this morning about the plans in Dallas for the 50th anniversary.  They're cleaning up the area where the assassination occurred, and removed the "X" on the street that marked the spot where the kill shot occurred.

Apparently it was put there by "vendors" (tour guides?).

Hard to believe it's been 50 years.

[Hannibal Lecter, MD]

News story this morning about the plans in Dallas for the 50th anniversary.  They're cleaning up the area where the assassination occurred, and removed the "X" on the street that marked the spot where the kill shot occurred.

Apparently it was put there by "vendors" (tour guides?).

I was very surprised to see that 'X' when I was there.

[ricky023]

Wow, that 50 years is hard to believe. Although it is dead on. I remember what I was doing on that same day. RTR!

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