Other Saturday Games

[N.AL-Tider]

ORE can tie with a TD:

Oregon failed to score!  Stanford wins!!  38-31.

 

AWESOME!  I was hoping Stanford would win... Excellent play-by-play commentary too BTW... have an ecred...

[Catch Prothro]

The Oregon game turned on a pylon that's OB, not in the field of play.  

Yep, runner's foot hit the pylon, ball was in his left arm, out of bounds.  Looked like the right call to me.

Stanford plays ND next Saturday.  Another interesting pick. 

In late news, Arizona State and the fighting Hermes play Washington close enough to beat the spread.   

RE misses a perfect week.    

[Chechem]

The Oregon game turned on a pylon that's OB, not in the field of play.  

Yep, runner's foot hit the pylon, ball was in his left arm, out of bounds.  Looked like the right call to me.

Stanford plays ND next Saturday.  Another interesting pick. 

...
RE misses a perfect week.    

Odd thing about the ORE game, WHEN DID THEY START PUTTING PYLONS OB??  I thought the pylon was an extension of the goalline, and was also part of the sidelines.  For years players would kick the pylon, giving them an automatic TD, regardless of which arm held the ball and such.  WTH??

[N.AL-Tider]

The Oregon game turned on a pylon that's OB, not in the field of play.  

Yep, runner's foot hit the pylon, ball was in his left arm, out of bounds.  Looked like the right call to me.

Stanford plays ND next Saturday.  Another interesting pick. 

...
RE misses a perfect week.    

Odd thing about the ORE game, WHEN DID THEY START PUTTING PYLONS OB??  I thought the pylon was an extension of the goalline, and was also part of the sidelines.  For years players would kick the pylon, giving them an automatic TD, regardless of which arm held the ball and such.  WTH??

Edzackery!  The ball carrier can kick the pylon and score a TD regardless of which hand the ball is in or where it is in relation to the goal line itself but when running out in the middle of the field the ball has to "break the plane" of the goal line...

[Chechem]

...Edzackery!  The ball carrier can kick the pylon and score a TD regardless of which hand the ball is in or where it is in relation to the goal line itself but when running out in the middle of the field the ball has to "break the plane" of the goal line...

Found this:

For a  number  of  years  we  have  made  a  distinction  between  a  ball  carrier  who goes airborne voluntarily — e.g. , he intentionally  dives for the pylon —and one who is  in the  air  because  of  contact  by  an  opponent.

Effective in  2011 there  is  no distinction between  the  ball  carrier who  dives  on  his  own  and  the one who  goes  into  the  air  on contact  by  an  opponent. They  are  both  airborne  players.   In  addition,  the  concept  of the  goal - line  plane  is  altered  slightly,  but  significantly.    For  a  ball  carrier  to  score  a touchdown, we  know  that the  ball
in  his  possession must  break the  plane  of  the  goal line.  But the interpretation of the plane of the goal line now is this: The goal -line plane runs  between  the  pylons  and  includes  the entire  pylon.   This  plane does  not extend beyond the pylons except in two
specific cases: when a ball carrier touches the pylon, and when a ball carrier touches the ground in  the end zone.  In the new 2011 - 12  rule book you will find this change in two places: Rule 2 -12 -2 (definition of goal line) and in Rule 8 - 2 -1 - a (how a touchdown is scored).  Previously  we  extended  the  goal- line  plane  if  a  ball  carrier  went  into  the  air because of contact by an opponent, and we did not extend it if he dived on his own.  But now it doesn’t matter how he got into the air.  What does matter is whether he touches
either the pylon or the ground in the end zone.  If he doesn‘t do either of these, the plane is not extended — no matter how he got into the air.

Click here for link

[N.AL-Tider]

...Edzackery!  The ball carrier can kick the pylon and score a TD regardless of which hand the ball is in or where it is in relation to the goal line itself but when running out in the middle of the field the ball has to "break the plane" of the goal line...

Found this:

For a  number  of  years  we  have  made  a  distinction  between  a  ball  carrier  who goes airborne voluntarily — e.g. , he intentionally  dives for the pylon —and one who is  in the  air  because  of  contact  by  an  opponent.

Effective in  2011 there  is  no distinction between  the  ball  carrier who  dives  on  his  own  and  the one who  goes  into  the  air  on contact  by  an  opponent. They  are  both  airborne  players.   In  addition,  the  concept  of the  goal - line  plane  is  altered  slightly,  but  significantly.    For  a  ball  carrier  to  score  a touchdown, we  know  that the  ball
in  his  possession must  break the  plane  of  the  goal line.  But the interpretation of the plane of the goal line now is this: The goal -line plane runs  between  the  pylons  and  includes  the entire  pylon.   This  plane does  not extend beyond the pylons except in two
specific cases: when a ball carrier touches the pylon, and when a ball carrier touches the ground in  the end zone.  In the new 2011 - 12  rule book you will find this change in two places: Rule 2 -12 -2 (definition of goal line) and in Rule 8 - 2 -1 - a (how a touchdown is scored).  Previously  we  extended  the  goal- line  plane  if  a  ball  carrier  went  into  the  air because of contact by an opponent, and we did not extend it if he dived on his own.  But now it doesn’t matter how he got into the air.  What does matter is whether he touches
either the pylon or the ground in the end zone.  If he doesn‘t do either of these, the plane is not extended — no matter how he got into the air.

Click here for link

Interesting. I believe I have seen ball carriers cross over the goal line and the sideline in the corner of the end zone without touching either the field (in the end zone) or the pylon and because the ball broke the "infinite" plane of the end zone it was ruled a TD. That doesn't agree with what you found unless I misread it...

[Chechem]

...Edzackery!  The ball carrier can kick the pylon and score a TD regardless of which hand the ball is in or where it is in relation to the goal line itself but when running out in the middle of the field the ball has to "break the plane" of the goal line...

Found this:

For a  number  of  years  we  have  made  a  distinction  between  a  ball  carrier  who goes airborne voluntarily — e.g. , he intentionally  dives for the pylon —and one who is  in the  air  because  of  contact  by  an  opponent.

Effective in  2011 there  is  no distinction between  the  ball  carrier who  dives  on  his  own  and  the one who  goes  into  the  air  on contact  by  an  opponent. They  are  both  airborne  players.   In  addition,  the  concept  of the  goal - line  plane  is  altered  slightly,  but  significantly.    For  a  ball  carrier  to  score  a touchdown, we  know  that the  ball
in  his  possession must  break the  plane  of  the  goal line.  But the interpretation of the plane of the goal line now is this: The goal -line plane runs  between  the  pylons  and  includes  the entire  pylon.   This  plane does  not extend beyond the pylons except in two
specific cases: when a ball carrier touches the pylon, and when a ball carrier touches the ground in  the end zone.  In the new 2011 - 12  rule book you will find this change in two places: Rule 2 -12 -2 (definition of goal line) and in Rule 8 - 2 -1 - a (how a touchdown is scored).  Previously  we  extended  the  goal- line  plane  if  a  ball  carrier  went  into  the  air because of contact by an opponent, and we did not extend it if he dived on his own.  But now it doesn’t matter how he got into the air.  What does matter is whether he touches
either the pylon or the ground in the end zone.  If he doesn‘t do either of these, the plane is not extended — no matter how he got into the air.

Click here for link

Interesting. I believe I have seen ball carriers cross over the goal line and the sideline in the corner of the end zone without touching either the field (in the end zone) or the pylon and because the ball broke the "infinite" plane of the end zone it was ruled a TD. That doesn't agree with what you found unless I misread it...

I know!  Very confusing.
Just saw a play on "Final Drive" where a player dove and touched the pylon for a TD.  

[Catch Prothro]

The pylon is technically out of bounds except when a TD is scored, per this Rule:

A touchdown shall be scored when:

A ball carrier advancing from the field of play has possession of a live ball when it penetrates the plane of the opponent’s goal line. This plane extends beyond the pylons only for a player who touches the ground in the end zone or a pylon.

What this rule means, apparently, is that, when a player touches the pylon, the location of the ball is critical.  If the ball has not yet broken the plane of the end zone, then no TD.  IF the ball is across the end zone line, regardless whether in bounds or not, then TD.

Here is the interpretation that seems to apply here:

Play #4:  The ball carrier heads for the right pylon of the goal line with the ball in his right hand.  His foot hits the pylon just before the ball (a) crosses the pylon; or (b) crosses the extension of the goal line outside the pylon.  Ruling:  (a) and (b) No touchdown in either case. Because the pylon is out of bounds, the ball is dead once the runner's foot hits the pylon. Thus the ball is dead in both cases before it crosses the goal line or the side line.

 

Here are the examples given in Approved Ruling 8-2-1:

1. Ball carrier A1, while attempting to score, strikes the pylon located on the right intersection of the goal line and sideline with his foot. He is carrying the ball in his right arm, which is extended over the sideline. RULING: Whether or not a touchdown is scored depends on the forward progress of the ball as related to the goal line when the ball becomes dead by rule (Rules 4-2-4-d and 5-1-3-a).[Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
2. Ball carrier A1, advancing in the field of play, becomes airborne at the two-yard line. His first contact with the ground is out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. The ball, in possession of the ball carrier, passed over the pylon. RULING: Touchdown (Rule 4-2-4-d). [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
3. The ball, in possession of airborne ball carrier A21, crosses the sideline above the one-yard line, continues beyond the pylon and is then declared dead out of bounds in possession of A21. RULING: Ball is declared out of bounds at the one-yard line (Rules 2-12-1 and 4-2-4-d). [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
4. Quarterback A12 completes a forward pass to a teammate who is standing in Team B’s end zone. (a) A12 is beyond the neutral zone when he releases the ball. (b) The receiver is wearing uniform number 73. RULING: In (a) and (b) the result of the play is a touchdown. The penalty is completed according to Team B’s options. [Cited by 2-9-2, 8-2-1-a]
5. Ball carrier A22 dives for the goal line at the B-1. The ball in his possession (a) touches the pylon; (b) goes over the top of the pylon; (c) crosses the goal line inside the pylon. A22 then first contacts the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING: (a), (b) and (c) Touchdown in all three. The ball in A22’s possession has broken the plane of the goal line in all three scenarios. [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
6. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. At the B-2 he dives or is blocked into the air by an opponent. The ball in A22’s right hand crosses the sideline at the B-1 and passes outside the pylon, and then A22 (a) touches the pylon with his foot or left hand; (b) first touches the ground out of bounds three yards beyond the goal line. RULING:(a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended since A22 touches the pylon. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended because A22 did not touch either the pylon or the ground in the end zone. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the B-1. [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
7. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball in his right hand crosses the extension of the goal line outside (i.e., to the right of) the pylon, and then A22 steps (a) on the goal line; (b) on the sideline inches short of the goal line. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The goal-line plane is extended because A22 touches the ground in the end zone. (b) Not a touchdown. The goal-line plane is not extended. The ball is ruled out of bounds at the crossing point. [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
8. Ball carrier A22 heads for the right-hand pylon at the goal line. The ball is in his right hand. His foot hits the pylon just before the ball crosses (a) the pylon or (b) the extension of the goal line just to the right (outside) of the pylon. RULING: (a) and (b) No touchdown in either case. Because the pylon is out of bounds the ball is dead when A22’s foot hits it. Thus in both cases the ball is dead before it crosses the goal line. [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
9. Ball carrier A1 is hit and his forward progress stopped inbounds near the goal line at the sideline to his right. When he is stopped he has the ball in his right hand extended beyond the goal line (a) inside the pylon; (b) outside the pylon. RULING: (a) Touchdown. The ball became dead when he extended it beyond the goal-line plane. (b) Not a touchdown, because no part of his body touches either the pylon or the end zone. In this case the goal-line plane is not extended. [Cited by 2-9-2, 4-2-4-d, 8-2-1-a]
10. Ball carrier A33 is running toward the Team B goal line. He drops the ball just inside the one-yard line and, thinking he has scored a touchdown, circles through the end zone and runs to his team area. There is no touchdown signal by any official. The fumbled ball hits the ground just outside or just inside the goal line, rolls along the ground in the end zone, and is declared dead there when it comes to rest and no player attempts to recover it. RULING: A’s ball just inside the one-yard line. (Rule 7-2-5) [Cited by 8-2-1-c]

Click here for link

[Chechem]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

[Catch Prothro]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

I think the NCAA adopted the NFL rule in 2011, which is why there are so many detailed examples. 

Lasers, or digital trackers on the football?   

[Chechem]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

I think the NCAA adopted the NFL rule in 2011, which is why there are so many detailed examples. 

Lasers, or digital trackers on the football?   

Lasers could shoot across the field to QUICKLY determine first downs and TDs.  Same with OBs.  That would solve replays. 

NOT the Goldfinger lasers that cut you in half.  HTH   

[2Stater]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

I think the NCAA adopted the NFL rule in 2011, which is why there are so many detailed examples. 

Lasers, or digital trackers on the football?   

Lasers could shoot across the field to QUICKLY determine first downs and TDs.  Same with OBs.  That would solve replays. 

NOT the Goldfinger lasers that cut you in half.  HTH   

Buzz kill! Ratings would be through the roof.

[Chechem]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

I think the NCAA adopted the NFL rule in 2011, which is why there are so many detailed examples. 

Lasers, or digital trackers on the football?   

Lasers could shoot across the field to QUICKLY determine first downs and TDs.  Same with OBs.  That would solve replays. 

NOT the Goldfinger lasers that cut you in half.  HTH   

Buzz kill! Ratings would be through the roof.

I really don't understand why we still use chains for first downs; terribly subjective.  I know; I worked chains for games.

Back in the late 60s or early 70s there was discussion of using lasers.  I think it was during the Army-Navy Game.  It makes sense.  The whole chain thing is just stupid.

[N.AL-Tider]

Okay, now I think I understand.
But it seems too detailed for the NCAA.  We need lasers instead to determine first downs and TDs.

 

I think the NCAA adopted the NFL rule in 2011, which is why there are so many detailed examples. 

Lasers, or digital trackers on the football?   

Lasers could shoot across the field to QUICKLY determine first downs and TDs.  Same with OBs.  That would solve replays. 

NOT the Goldfinger lasers that cut you in half.  HTH   

They could install chips in both ends of the football with sensors down the sidelines and end zone lines to determine out of bounds and TD's.  Because of the calibration issues that would be inevitable the 1st down determinations would be more difficult and possibly time consuming...

[ricky023]

If they would make sure the chains are planted correctly it shouldn't be a problem but there again the chain holders are human. RTR!

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