Kyler Who?

[CrimsonCrusader]

Did I hear Kyler say they da#@ near won or was that my imagination? In my opinion Bama was never close to losing that game. Sure okie started scoring but, I believe it was due to the defense getting tired and Murray playing lights out. I don’t think the okie defense could have stopped my 63 yr. old self. Lol! All in all I think that game went as it should have, Bama dominating. JMHO!

[hscoach]

Did I hear Kyler say they da#@ near won or was that my imagination? In my opinion Bama was never close to losing that game. Sure okie started scoring but, I believe it was due to the defense getting tired and Murray playing lights out. I don’t think the okie defense could have stopped my 63 yr. old self. Lol! All in all I think that game went as it should have, Bama dominating. JMHO!

Maybe he didn't realize Bama kneel down to end the game instead of scoring again.

[2Stater]

He needs to accept his beating and go play for the A's.

[pmull]

I did not hear him say anything out of line last night. He seems like a decent guy. He and Tua formed a good relationship and appear to respect each other. Like it or not he is a worthy Heisman winner. Did Tua out shine him last night. Of course he did. Tua played almost a flawless game. Bama could score anytime they wanted but choose to take time off the clock and run the ball after building the big lead.

I did see this morning where Murray said he wants people to remember "I never quit". I bet people at A&M feel differently.

[N.AL-Tider]

I did not hear him say anything out of line last night. He seems like a decent guy. He and Tua formed a good relationship and appear to respect each other. Like it or not he is a worthy Heisman winner. Did Tua out shine him last night. Of course he did. Tua played almost a flawless game. Bama could score anytime they wanted but choose to take time off the clock and run the ball after building the big lead.

I did see this morning where Murray said he wants people to remember "I never quit". I bet people at A&M feel differently.

I don't agree pmull, not totally.  I'm not sure if, by "he is not a worthy Heisman winner," that he didn't play well enough to represent the Heisman or due to his behavior/comments.  Murray played very well IMO.  Sure he was only 19 of 37 passing for 308 yards while Tua was 24 of 27 for 318 but we need to remember that Murray was playing against one of, if not THE best defense in the SEC while Tua was playing against a typical, non-existent Big12 defense.  To me that is a HUGE difference.  Murray also ran 17 times for 109 yards and a TD against that same Bama defense. Even though his completion percentage was much lower that Tua's, I believe he actually outplayed Tua in this game when you look at the two defenses they faced.  I'm not convinced that Tua would have done as well had he faced our defense...

[Chechem]

My 2-cents worth:

Murray showed why he won the Heisman.  He's a rare talent.

And Tua showed why he was worthy too.  Had Tua hit 24 of 27 passes against UGA, he'd have the trophy. 

BUT, I think it was worth it for Tua to have an injury, lose the trophy, but Jalen recaptured the glory.  Jalen got the best Christmas gift, and we kept winning.

 

[N.AL-Tider]

My 2-cents worth:

Murray showed why he won the Heisman.  He's a rare talent.

And Tua showed why he was worthy too.  Had Tua hit 24 of 27 passes against UGA, he'd have the trophy. 

BUT, I think it was worth it for Tua to have an injury, lose the trophy, but Jalen recaptured the glory.  Jalen got the best Christmas gift, and we kept winning.

 

Agreed!  And an ecred for stating it so well... 

[Catch Prothro]

Murray played very well IMO.  Sure he was only 19 of 37 passing for 308 yards while Tua was 24 of 27 for 318 but we need to remember that Murray was playing against one of, if not THE best defense in the SEC while Tua was playing against a typical, non-existent Big12 defense.  To me that is a HUGE difference.  Murray also ran 17 times for 109 yards and a TD against that same Bama defense. Even though his completion percentage was much lower that Tua's, I believe he actually outplayed Tua in this game when you look at the two defenses they faced.  I'm not convinced that Tua would have done as well had he faced our defense...

The best compliment the announcers gave Murray all night was on a pass that they described, "As accurate as Tua."

I disagree that Murray outplayed Tua.  He overthrew open receivers, threw the ball up hoping a tall receiver could come down with the pass, and did not demonstrate the accuracy, vision or understanding necessary to make a successful QB at the next level.

Tua did all of these things that NFL scouts look for.  He was unbelievably accurate into tight windows.  His checks at the line were mostly spot on.  He plays Bama's defense every day in practice and reportedly has had much more success than Murray against them.

The only area that Murray shined is when he ran the football.  He is very fast and elusive.  That makes him a great athlete, but not a great QB. 

Tua was not asked to run the football because Bama has several quality RBs, and the coaches did not want Tua reinjured before the Natty.  He is not as fast as Murray, but when healthy he is a lot more powerful. 

[SUPERCOACH]

Murray played very well IMO.  Sure he was only 19 of 37 passing for 308 yards while Tua was 24 of 27 for 318 but we need to remember that Murray was playing against one of, if not THE best defense in the SEC while Tua was playing against a typical, non-existent Big12 defense.  To me that is a HUGE difference.  Murray also ran 17 times for 109 yards and a TD against that same Bama defense. Even though his completion percentage was much lower that Tua's, I believe he actually outplayed Tua in this game when you look at the two defenses they faced.  I'm not convinced that Tua would have done as well had he faced our defense...

The best compliment the announcers gave Murray all night was on a pass that they described, "As accurate as Tua."

I disagree that Murray outplayed Tua.  He overthrew open receivers, threw the ball up hoping a tall receiver could come down with the pass, and did not demonstrate the accuracy, vision or understanding necessary to make a successful QB at the next level.

Tua did all of these things that NFL scouts look for.  He was unbelievably accurate into tight windows.  His checks at the line were mostly spot on.  He plays Bama's defense every day in practice and reportedly has had much more success than Murray against them.

The only area that Murray shined is when he ran the football.  He is very fast and elusive.  That makes him a great athlete, but not a great QB. 

Tua was not asked to run the football because Bama has several quality RBs, and the coaches did not want Tua reinjured before the Natty.  He is not as fast as Murray, but when healthy he is a lot more powerful. 

^^^THIS.

The other point about Murray going up against a much tougher defense is exactly why Tua should have won the Heisman.  Anybody can put up Murray's regular season numbers when they play against air.  When he was at aTm he was basically unheard of, but move him to the mighty Big 12 and he sets the world on fire.  Want more evidence?  Just look at Stidham, who made the opposite switch.  He came to Auburn hyped up as the next Heisman winner, based largely on his play in the Big 12 when he was at Baylor.  How did that work out for him?

Meanwhile, Tua was playing much tougher defenses week in and week out, and hardly even had to play in the second half of most games.  Yet against much tougher competition, Tua's numbers were not far behind Murray's.

Murray is a tremendous athlete, and from all accounts a good kid.  I just don't think he is a better QB than Tua, or more deserving of the Heisman than Tua.

[ricky023]

If Tua stays injury free he should be the leader for next year upfront. RTR!

[Catch Prothro]

If Tua stays injury free he should be the leader for next year upfront. RTR!

The press will try to steal it from  him again.   

[N.AL-Tider]

Murray played very well IMO.  Sure he was only 19 of 37 passing for 308 yards while Tua was 24 of 27 for 318 but we need to remember that Murray was playing against one of, if not THE best defense in the SEC while Tua was playing against a typical, non-existent Big12 defense.  To me that is a HUGE difference.  Murray also ran 17 times for 109 yards and a TD against that same Bama defense. Even though his completion percentage was much lower that Tua's, I believe he actually outplayed Tua in this game when you look at the two defenses they faced.  I'm not convinced that Tua would have done as well had he faced our defense...

The best compliment the announcers gave Murray all night was on a pass that they described, "As accurate as Tua."

I disagree that Murray outplayed Tua.  He overthrew open receivers, threw the ball up hoping a tall receiver could come down with the pass, and did not demonstrate the accuracy, vision or understanding necessary to make a successful QB at the next level.

Tua did all of these things that NFL scouts look for.  He was unbelievably accurate into tight windows.  His checks at the line were mostly spot on.  He plays Bama's defense every day in practice and reportedly has had much more success than Murray against them.

The only area that Murray shined is when he ran the football.  He is very fast and elusive.  That makes him a great athlete, but not a great QB. 

Tua was not asked to run the football because Bama has several quality RBs, and the coaches did not want Tua reinjured before the Natty.  He is not as fast as Murray, but when healthy he is a lot more powerful. 

^^^THIS.

The other point about Murray going up against a much tougher defense is exactly why Tua should have won the Heisman.  Anybody can put up Murray's regular season numbers when they play against air.  When he was at aTm he was basically unheard of, but move him to the mighty Big 12 and he sets the world on fire.  Want more evidence?  Just look at Stidham, who made the opposite switch.  He came to Auburn hyped up as the next Heisman winner, based largely on his play in the Big 12 when he was at Baylor.  How did that work out for him?

Meanwhile, Tua was playing much tougher defenses week in and week out, and hardly even had to play in the second half of most games.  Yet against much tougher competition, Tua's numbers were not far behind Murray's.

Murray is a tremendous athlete, and from all accounts a good kid.  I just don't think he is a better QB than Tua, or more deserving of the Heisman than Tua.

I totally agree that Tua deserved the Heisman over Murray.  No question about it.  He DID play against better defenses all season long except for Saturday night.  His passing numbers were comparable and actually better if scaled UP to full games.  He didn't even come close to the rushing numbers that Murray had though.  Again, he did run against teams with no defense except for Texas and that is debatable.  The Heisman voters didn't look at how much playing time each had or at the quality of defenses they faced.  The looked at passing and rushing numbers with TD's thrown in, PERIOD!  That is why Murray won and honestly, based on that, he probably did deserve it over Tua.  But when looking at all factors involved, Tua should have won it going away.

Now, I realize that Tua faces one of the best defenses in the country every day in practice.  IMO, that is one of the main reasons that he has had much of the success he has this season.  It does not matter though when looking at the Bama/OK game as to who outplayed whom.  Tua faced a very soft defense (Big12) while Murray faced a much tougher (SEC) defense.  Murray had almost the same yards passing as Tua.  That reason and that reason alone is why I feel that he outplayed Tua in this one game because of the level of defense each had to play against.  Play the "what-if" game all you want but he ran for 100+ yards and threw over 300 yards passing against Bama's defense while Tua threw for just over Murray's passing total and hardly ran at all. 

[2Stater]

Bottom line: Tua played against much better defenses throughout the year, rarely making it to the 4th quarter. Murray had much better numbers because the Oklahoma D sucked out loud, and he had to play the whole game. Not taking anything away from Murray's performance the other night, but the only thing Murray has over Tua is speed.

Tua makes great reads and is far more accurate than Murray. The Heisman ended up hanging on one game; the Georgia game, where Tua was obviously hurt, and played the only sub-par game of his career.

Murray is the better athlete, but Tua is the superior QB. Just my 2 cents.

[SUPERCOACH]

Murray played very well IMO.  Sure he was only 19 of 37 passing for 308 yards while Tua was 24 of 27 for 318 but we need to remember that Murray was playing against one of, if not THE best defense in the SEC while Tua was playing against a typical, non-existent Big12 defense.  To me that is a HUGE difference.  Murray also ran 17 times for 109 yards and a TD against that same Bama defense. Even though his completion percentage was much lower that Tua's, I believe he actually outplayed Tua in this game when you look at the two defenses they faced.  I'm not convinced that Tua would have done as well had he faced our defense...

The best compliment the announcers gave Murray all night was on a pass that they described, "As accurate as Tua."

I disagree that Murray outplayed Tua.  He overthrew open receivers, threw the ball up hoping a tall receiver could come down with the pass, and did not demonstrate the accuracy, vision or understanding necessary to make a successful QB at the next level.

Tua did all of these things that NFL scouts look for.  He was unbelievably accurate into tight windows.  His checks at the line were mostly spot on.  He plays Bama's defense every day in practice and reportedly has had much more success than Murray against them.

The only area that Murray shined is when he ran the football.  He is very fast and elusive.  That makes him a great athlete, but not a great QB. 

Tua was not asked to run the football because Bama has several quality RBs, and the coaches did not want Tua reinjured before the Natty.  He is not as fast as Murray, but when healthy he is a lot more powerful. 

^^^THIS.

The other point about Murray going up against a much tougher defense is exactly why Tua should have won the Heisman.  Anybody can put up Murray's regular season numbers when they play against air.  When he was at aTm he was basically unheard of, but move him to the mighty Big 12 and he sets the world on fire.  Want more evidence?  Just look at Stidham, who made the opposite switch.  He came to Auburn hyped up as the next Heisman winner, based largely on his play in the Big 12 when he was at Baylor.  How did that work out for him?

Meanwhile, Tua was playing much tougher defenses week in and week out, and hardly even had to play in the second half of most games.  Yet against much tougher competition, Tua's numbers were not far behind Murray's.

Murray is a tremendous athlete, and from all accounts a good kid.  I just don't think he is a better QB than Tua, or more deserving of the Heisman than Tua.

I totally agree that Tua deserved the Heisman over Murray.  No question about it.  He DID play against better defenses all season long except for Saturday night.  His passing numbers were comparable and actually better if scaled UP to full games.  He didn't even come close to the rushing numbers that Murray had though.  Again, he did run against teams with no defense except for Texas and that is debatable.  The Heisman voters didn't look at how much playing time each had or at the quality of defenses they faced.  The looked at passing and rushing numbers with TD's thrown in, PERIOD!  That is why Murray won and honestly, based on that, he probably did deserve it over Tua.  But when looking at all factors involved, Tua should have won it going away.

Now, I realize that Tua faces one of the best defenses in the country every day in practice.  IMO, that is one of the main reasons that he has had much of the success he has this season.  It does not matter though when looking at the Bama/OK game as to who outplayed whom.  Tua faced a very soft defense (Big12) while Murray faced a much tougher (SEC) defense.  Murray had almost the same yards passing as Tua.  That reason and that reason alone is why I feel that he outplayed Tua in this one game because of the level of defense each had to play against.  Play the "what-if" game all you want but he ran for 100+ yards and threw over 300 yards passing against Bama's defense while Tua threw for just over Murray's passing total and hardly ran at all. 

2 points:

1)  Why would Tua run the ball in the first place?  I don't want him to have huge rushing numbers.  If we need a running QB send in Jalen.
2)  Why would Tua throw the ball a lot in this game?  After we got up 28 to nothing we had no need to throw the ball all over the field.  We needed to run the ball most of the time to shorten the game, and that is what we did.

You can't go by stats alone.  Tua had no need to run or throw as much as Murray.  Tua did exactly what was needed by his team.  Stats without the proper context are tantamount to lies.  That is the same logic that awarded the Heisman to Murray.

[Catch Prothro]

2 points:

1)  Why would Tua run the ball in the first place?  I don't want him to have huge rushing numbers.  If we need a running QB send in Jalen.
2)  Why would Tua throw the ball a lot in this game?  After we got up 28 to nothing we had no need to throw the ball all over the field.  We needed to run the ball most of the time to shorten the game, and that is what we did.

You can't go by stats alone.  Tua had no need to run or throw as much as Murray.  Tua did exactly what was needed by his team.  Stats without the proper context are tantamount to lies.  That is the same logic that awarded the Heisman to Murray.

Great points, and all true. 

After getting a 28-0 lead, Bama sought to shorten the game by running clock.  Both times OK got within 11 points, Bama opened up the offense and scored again. 

But I'm not sure what "logic" was used to award the Heisman.  Tua's biggest competition was Bama fatigue.

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