My Observations on Alabama/Ole Miss Fiasco

[ricky023]

Coach made some reference to ole piss stealing d's play calls.

If only it were that simple.  Sign stealing doesn't explain poor tackling and taking bad angles, etc.

  no sir you are right. RTR!

[Marshal Dillon]

Forget winning championships - this defense will not let us win 7 games. I've never seen it this bad and I've been a Bama fan my whole 56 years of life.

Sorry Carl, but that's just not true. On either the wins or how bad Bama is.  I, too, and 56 y/o and have definitely seen worse Bama defenses. In 2000 under Mike Duboise the team went 3-8 and in 2003 under Mike Shula they went 4-9.  This year we are 3-0 at this point and no way we won't win 4 more games.  If you really believe what you said then you need to seek professional counseling.  Yes, our defense is bad. No, check that.  They are horrible.  But our offense is stellar and will probably bail us out of some of the tougher games the rest of the season. Might not against UGA but I suspect everyone else on our schedule will likely be wins for us.

BINGO! That’s what I told my wife and adult old son last night. I’ve seen hopeless D in recent Tide history. Horrible is bad but not hopeless.



 

[roll tide roll]

Sign stealing doesn't explain poor tackling and taking bad angles, etc.

Of course it does not, but it surely does not help your poorly performing team if the opposing offense has your scheme on every play.

I think the biggest factor with regard to the basics of football play (tackling, bad angles, etc.) is the lack of contact and live practice drills due to contact restrictions put in place b/c of the wuhan red death.

idk

Them rabid dawgs are going to be howling at the front door.

That I do know.

[ricky023]

You better know the dogs are coming with thirsty lips dribbling on their chin. RTR!

[N.AL-Tider]

I think the whole idea of Kiffin "stealing" the Bama defensive signals is petty and pathetic.  The offence typically approaches the LOS with a couple or three plays to run based on the defensive positioning.  They then make adjustments based on how the defense is lined up and run the play.  I really doubt they did that.

[roll tide roll]

I think the whole idea of Kiffin "stealing" the Bama defensive signals is petty and pathetic.  The offence typically approaches the LOS with a couple or three plays to run based on the defensive positioning.  They then make adjustments based on how the defense is lined up and run the play.  I really doubt they did that.

Coach Saban seemed to think it was a possibility, considering that he made reference to it during a post game interview.

[N.AL-Tider]

I think the whole idea of Kiffin "stealing" the Bama defensive signals is petty and pathetic.  The offence typically approaches the LOS with a couple or three plays to run based on the defensive positioning.  They then make adjustments based on how the defense is lined up and run the play.  I really doubt they did that.

Coach Saban seemed to think it was a possibility, considering that he made reference to it during a post game interview.

Regardless, the offense doesn't need to "steal" defensive signals.  They call their plays (usually signaled from the sideline) for what they intend to do with options to alter the play depending on how the defense lines up.  It is foolish to suggest that the offense calls their initial plays based on how the defense lines up against them.

[Old Tider]

I think the whole idea of Kiffin "stealing" the Bama defensive signals is petty and pathetic.  The offence typically approaches the LOS with a couple or three plays to run based on the defensive positioning.  They then make adjustments based on how the defense is lined up and run the play.  I really doubt they did that.

Coach Saban seemed to think it was a possibility, considering that he made reference to it during a post game interview.

Regardless, the offense doesn't need to "steal" defensive signals.  They call their plays (usually signaled from the sideline) for what they intend to do with options to alter the play depending on how the defense lines up.  It is foolish to suggest that the offense calls their initial plays based on how the defense lines up against them.

I can't recall when the offense last had a huddle. Remember huddles?

[ricky023]

Huddles are a thing of the past. RTR!

[roll tide roll]

It is foolish to suggest that the offense calls their initial plays based on how the defense lines up against them.

It would be.

Nobody suggested that as a scenario.

It is foolish to suggest (as you did) that an offense gains no advantage from knowing whether the opposing defense were playing man, zone, blitzing a particular player (creating a hole) regardless of how that defense lines up against them.

For example:

I could have my defense line up in a nickel formation every down and from that formation I could attack the opposing offense through multiple positions/players all hidden by my constant use of a nickel formation.  To manage that I would signal position players/groups to operate in particular ways from the sideline.  If the opposing team somehow managed to obtain my signals for my defense they could then alter routes, blocking schemes, or even entire plays based on their observation of my signal calling to my defensive players/groups.

Does that make sense to you?

Do you think Coach Saban was being dishonest when he mentioned this as a possibility?

My experience shows that Coach Saban does not shirk responsibility for coaching/player performance.

Do you have a different opinion of Coach Saban?

[N.AL-Tider]

It is foolish to suggest that the offense calls their initial plays based on how the defense lines up against them.

It would be.

Nobody suggested that as a scenario.

It is foolish to suggest (as you did) that an offense gains no advantage from knowing whether the opposing defense were playing man, zone, blitzing a particular player (creating a hole) regardless of how that defense lines up against them.

For example:

I could have my defense line up in a nickel formation every down and from that formation I could attack the opposing offense through multiple positions/players all hidden by my constant use of a nickel formation.  To manage that I would signal position players/groups to operate in particular ways from the sideline.  If the opposing team somehow managed to obtain my signals for my defense they could then alter routes, blocking schemes, or even entire plays based on their observation of my signal calling to my defensive players/groups.

Does that make sense to you?

Do you think Coach Saban was being dishonest when he mentioned this as a possibility?

My experience shows that Coach Saban does not shirk responsibility for coaching/player performance.

Do you have a different opinion of Coach Saban?

Offenses, as I have stated already, typically call a set of plays via signals from the sideline. Those plays have options that are exercised or not based on the way the defense is aligned.  Also taken into account would be personnel groupings.  As Kiffin stated, at the pace of play that they use there simply isn't enough time to "steal" signals and implement changes in their plays. I have no idea what was going through Saban's mind when he suggested the possibility because I can promise you, he has forgotten more about scheming in football than you or I ever knew combined.  Maybe that isn't true.  Perhaps you know more than CNS. I don't know. However, if you are a head coach, you go ahead and operate your defense in nickle 100% of the time.  I guarantee you will lose a lot of games doing so. And IMO you are wrong about what I made bold and underlined above.  Any good QB is going to know when a player is scheming to blitz. The player may be trying to trick him into thinking he is going to blitz then back out to cover but the QB knows when a blitz is coming unless it is coming from his blindside.  Prior to the snap though they know it most of the time pre-snap.  My point is, most of the time a QB knows what the defense is going to do before the snap without stealing signals.

Regarding Saban shirking his responsibilities, I do not believe he has EVER done so. I think the possibility of his assistants may have done so is real however.

[Hannibal Lecter, MD]

I think the whole idea of Kiffin "stealing" the Bama defensive signals is petty and pathetic.  The offence typically approaches the LOS with a couple or three plays to run based on the defensive positioning.  They then make adjustments based on how the defense is lined up and run the play.  I really doubt they did that.

Saban backed off that and said he meant "it just seemed like it" because he often felt Ole Miss was a step ahead.   If I were Pete Golding, I'd be worried about that statement more than if I were Lane Kiffin.

[roll tide roll]

Saban backed off that and said he meant "it just seemed like it" because he often felt Ole Miss was a step ahead.   If I were Pete Golding, I'd be worried about that statement more than if I were Lane Kiffin.

kiffin has no shame or moral compass to find shame.

He would do it, not care, and certainly not worry about it.

Good to know Coach backed off the statement.  

[roll tide roll]

It is foolish to suggest that the offense calls their initial plays based on how the defense lines up against them.

It would be.

Nobody suggested that as a scenario.

It is foolish to suggest (as you did) that an offense gains no advantage from knowing whether the opposing defense were playing man, zone, blitzing a particular player (creating a hole) regardless of how that defense lines up against them.

For example:

I could have my defense line up in a nickel formation every down and from that formation I could attack the opposing offense through multiple positions/players all hidden by my constant use of a nickel formation.  To manage that I would signal position players/groups to operate in particular ways from the sideline.  If the opposing team somehow managed to obtain my signals for my defense they could then alter routes, blocking schemes, or even entire plays based on their observation of my signal calling to my defensive players/groups.

Does that make sense to you?

Do you think Coach Saban was being dishonest when he mentioned this as a possibility?

My experience shows that Coach Saban does not shirk responsibility for coaching/player performance.

Do you have a different opinion of Coach Saban?

Offenses, as I have stated already, typically call a set of plays via signals from the sideline. Those plays have options that are exercised or not based on the way the defense is aligned.  Also taken into account would be personnel groupings.  As Kiffin stated, at the pace of play that they use there simply isn't enough time to "steal" signals and implement changes in their plays. I have no idea what was going through Saban's mind when he suggested the possibility because I can promise you, he has forgotten more about scheming in football than you or I ever knew combined.  Maybe that isn't true.  Perhaps you know more than CNS. I don't know. However, if you are a head coach, you go ahead and operate your defense in nickle 100% of the time.  I guarantee you will lose a lot of games doing so. And IMO you are wrong about what I made bold and underlined above.  Any good QB is going to know when a player is scheming to blitz. The player may be trying to trick him into thinking he is going to blitz then back out to cover but the QB knows when a blitz is coming unless it is coming from his blindside.  Prior to the snap though they know it most of the time pre-snap.  My point is, most of the time a QB knows what the defense is going to do before the snap without stealing signals.

Regarding Saban shirking his responsibilities, I do not believe he has EVER done so. I think the possibility of his assistants may have done so is real however.

Oh my goodness.

Sorry, got to go, Coach is calling.

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